To think the answer isn't always to "speak to HR"

[straighttalker33]

Ok, this might get backlash as it's a very commonly posted answer on here where workplace issues are discussed. Would appreciate constructive comment instead of abuse if you don't agree It really bugs me when someone posts about a problem they have with something at their work and the answer is 'you should log this with HR', 'you should speak to HR', 'have you got an HR department'.

We're in 2019, HR isn't a 'personnel' department anymore that deals with peoples moans and issues. Yes, they can advise on policy, but why should they deal with every single workplace issue! That is what your line manager is for. People need more progressive views on what the HR department does and this is why they have a bad rep in most workplaces.

Granted, there are probably lots of companies where HR deal with all the nitshit. But the best companies I've worked for are large, modern ones that make the line manager have accountability to deal with difficult conversations and situations. Not for employees to come to them and tell them someone in their team didn't invite them on the work night out.

I work for TfL and we rarely speak to HR unless it's gross misconduct. Most issues are dealt with at station area level, in a meeting with a manager, a union rep, and the persons involved.

The reason HR needs to be informed in many circumstances is if you are in a workplace situation where the management have their own agenda or some behaviours are being excused which should not be tolerated. A lot of people suffer through workplace stress and the HR structure is there to protect the worker and the business.

Sometimes tribunals and disputes could be ruled in the wrong way if HR did not have sufficient evidence or knowledge about certain workplace issues. It isn’t always the golden answer but for many it is, and it’s usually the best way to make sure things are in check.

What if its your line manager thats the problem?

Until recently I worked for one of the largest supermarket chains, in head office.

HR has a team of people specifically, for you to speak to for these reasons. Advice, making a complaint, checking policy, they oversee grievances etc

There can be lots of reasons people dont want to speak to their line manager.

In a job once I was being bullied by an ex manager of mine. My manager was a wet lettuce and the manager I was complaining about was slightly more senior and their mentor.

Also as a people manager I have had staff from other teams come to me and complain about their own manager. Everywhere I have worked the policy has been to speak to the person and refer or offer to refer to HR. Rather than getting involved in something you dont know anything about.

I have also seen lots of managers convince their staff to not make complaints because it means more work for them, they dont want to confront the issue, they think they will be judged for missing the issue before it got bad.

The company I now work for is quite small. Just over 1000 employees. Our Head office have a team of HR people and even the HR director encourages people to go to her, if they feel they cant speak to someone else or their own manager.

I have never worked anywhere, where HR are just there to advise on policy and procedure.

It really depends on where you work, how it's set up, the quality of manager you have, your relationship with that manager and what the issue is.

Okay. Completely understand the argument there and I understand there are occasions HR should know as a tribunal may** consider this when making their ruling. I think maybe my view on it, is because I work in specialist HR and get people coming to me with generalist issues, often like ones I see described on here. Generalist HR practitioners may have a different view, but even then I would expect employees within the business to deal with it as opposed to HR going out 'telling people off' for minor issues.

This works both ways for me too, I recently seen an HR practitioner post on a professional group and ask how she can stop people in the workplace swearing. I think this is ridiculous and don't know why anyone in HR would make their job so menial and get involved with these things.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems like a backward step for the profession to always advise things should be reported to HR, when there is a lot more value-add items on their agenda. But completely agree that large and potentially risky problems should be reported, even if just for awareness. This post refers to the nitshit, not complex issues which line managers cannot be expected to know how to deal with.

‘Speak to HR’ isn’t glib. It is because plenty of line managers are not good at all at knowing what they should do and what the law obliges them to do about certain problems. HR will (or should!) know as that is their professional skill.

You work in specialised HR. So its different.

The supermarket I worked for had a big HT department all with specialised roles.

First thing they will ask is 'have you spoken to your manager?' If the person says 'no'or explains why they feel they cant, they accept them at their word.

Ita definitely not a backwords step for the profession. Its just not something you do in your role.

The swearing for example. If there have been several complaints from different teams/ areas of the business HR may decide to tackle it as a whole business problem. Rather than just popping over and asking bob to clean his language up.

If Bob just needs to stop swearing, I would expect the person complaining to HR to speak to their manager. If they have and their manager is bona best mate and dare not tell bob to be quiet. HR may decide to speak to that manager.

Appreciate your views. Good to see it from a different perspective, thank you.

I've noticed this a lot on here. People seem to think telling hr is a bit like telling teacher when you're nine. Hr will come and give them a ticking off.

Plus not everyone works for a large company with a HR department! Many of us work for small companies with only one/two managers.

Ime, HR is mostly there to prevent the organisation from costly litigation.

That's why I'm in a union, in a non-union workplace, because that way I know I'll have someone on my side should I ever need it. As for talking to a line manager, ime it's often the line manager that's part of the problem.

You should always speak to your manager first, yes - but often in MN threads either the problem is the manager, or the manager hasn’t done anything about the problem.

It really depends on where you work, and what the specific problem actually is. I’m not saying anyone should go to HR over a spat with a colleague, but I do think they should go to HR if they are being bullied or harassed by their manager, for example.

My HR department steps in for most disciplinary issues and will be involved when someone accuses someone of bullying/harassment or a manager thinks an employee needs a formal disciplinary process or is too unwell to do their job or whatever, or when a manager has been unreasonable over flexible working practices etc.

The other issue can be that someone complains that Bob keeps commenting on their boobs. They spoke to their manager.

Manager had a quick work with Bob told him to stop it. But nothing is documented. So when it happens again, employee feels that no one gives a shit.

Unfortunately, I don't think many managers are actually supported or trained enough to deal with complaints about staff

A company I worked for, a few years ago had, what we called magic weekend. People would be an agent on the phones on Friday, by monday they were given a team to manage. Thrown straight in, no support, no idea how to handle things.

Which is why often HR is a contact point.

If more companies spenr timebinveatinf in making sure managers had the knowledge and tools to do the job, staff may feel they could sort issues our without going to HR.

Totally agree. HR isn't the same as a complaints department.

First port of call for any issues should be your line manager. HR can work as a mediator but they are not there to wade in to disputes on your side.

Would hate to be a HR officer and have to listen to people's moans.

When I speak to our HR team asking for advice as a line manager the advice is almost inevitably 'it's a line manager's discretion' which is fine except that everyone thinks differently. It can easily cause resentment if one manager's view of how much compassionate leave is appropriate after the death of a partner/child/parent differs to another or one manager allows more paid time off to look after a sick child than another.

@mystupidmistake that’s what always gets me. There’s such a stereotype on here that everyone works in an office with a “team” and a “line manager” and an “HR department”. I’ve literally never worked anywhere that had an HR department of any description, and yes it’s usually the manager that’s the bloody problem.

Most people in the UK are employed by small and medium sized businesses and so probably don't have HR departments!

To be fair, on mn, lots of people do ask 'do you have HR?' Before advising the OP to go there.

Not always, but a lot.

@gingersausage yes!!! Absolutely!! I think the ones who do work in that environment can’t even imagine that there are people to whom ‘work’ isn’t this huge corporate thing.

I'm finding this thread very relevant as I've just started in my first HR related role for a small company (internal transfer). We've never had any problems with people until now when there is a "go to" person. Since starting I have had managers expecting from me to speak to individuals to sort their sickness rates out, deal with low performance, deal with behavioural issues and an allegation of bullying. Needless to say the first thing I've done is set up Leadership training, a Line Managers toolkit training and writing procedures. I understand that some new managers may need a bit of a handhold initially but my aim is to make them self sufficient and enable them to manage people effectively before the problems arise.

I work for a large retailer and have a HR helpline, its for me (all managers) to phone for advice or guidance on policy but they dont speak to staff. As a line manager its my role to deal with absence, lateness, conduct, disciplinaries, investigations etc etc. There is no HR department for general staff to contact.

@KittyVonCatsworth thats such a good idea. And the managers will thank you on the long run.

I have seen so many managers act illegally, because they simply didnt know what to do and have no support. Having managers who know all this stuff will take pressure off, if they are expecting you to deal with sickness levels as a first port if call.

Some training around managers having 'difficult converstations' would be a good addition. So many people managers just dont know how to handle having those uncomfortable converstations.

The huge problem with the way most businesses are structured is, when you move up the ranks, you end up managing people. Some people should not manage others, they might be exceptionally good at their job but have the emotional intelligence of a fork so are not suitable to manage others.

HR can at least explain the policies of a workplace. A bit like the law, just because it feels the right thing to do, does not mean it is allowed.

I work for a major employer (10k+) employees, and our HR is absolutely shambolic. Poorly trained, they give rubbish advice, don't generally know their own policies, and are purely there to cover the employer's backside. I work in a specialist department which works closely with them, so unfortunately know this for a fact. There are maybe 5 individuals who know what they are talking about, but this does not filter down to the rest of HR.

The huge problem with the way most businesses are structured is, when you move up the ranks, you end up managing people. Some people should not manage others, they might be exceptionally good at their job but have the emotional intelligence of a fork so are not suitable to manage others.

I couldnt agree more. I was really lucky. My manager was having an operation and when he returned was going into a promotion in another area of the business. I got his job. His operation was put off, so it was agreed we would co manage the team until his operation and he would move after that.

I spent 2 months working with him and learned so much. Then in another job, my senior manager, mentored me and I learned so much from him as well.

The job I have just moved to, employed me on my track record of people management and my success at that. People managing rarely has anything to do with the technical side of a job. Though as a manager it's good to know that stuff too.

But yes, just because you are good at doing the technical part of tour job, does not make you a good people manager.