AIBU - If you want to drive below the speed limit you should pull over at regular intervals

[TheCumbrian]

'It's a speed limit not a target' etc

But equally, on a good road in good conditions theres no reason why a competent driver shouldn't be able to drive somewhere close to the speed limit (sharp bends, single track national speed limit C roads etc excluded) and make reasonable progress without holding up other road users.

If you can't, you should pull over, when safe to do so, once you have 5 or more vehicles trundling behind you.

Is it really that difficult to believe that the vast majority of drivers deploy common sense and reasonable judgement?

No.
Just that most respect speed limits.

Last night I was stuck behind someone doing 45 in a 60 with average speed cameras for HALF AN HOUR. Absolutely no reason, sry conditions, good visibility plenty of lay-bys for them to pull over but no opportunity to overtake. It’s so annoying.

Go on...can you define 'dithering'....
You're really quite preoccupied with ignoring all common sense and wanting people to talk in numbers (I'm guessing so that whatever number someone gives you can invent a situation where that speed would be fine and in some weird way think that challenges the whole premise of reasonable progress).

All of those speeds would probably be totally reasonable most of the time because he vast majority of drivers would drive for the conditions and the road in front of them (of course with national speed limit, where road features are more varied 55 would still be unsafe in some situations).

Even the DSA doesn't give numbers because driving conditions and roads vary.
It's about reasonable progress and not hindering others. It relies on common sense, which most people have, which is why most people don't go around pootling.

Nobody has said ditherers upset them or give them road rage.
Quite. Many of us have said they are irritating and should demonstrate a more more competence in the road or awareness of other road users.
It's interesting that most reasonable people (the drivers who make up the majority of drivers) manage just find to understand there's a range of reasonable driving for the conditions that is neither speeding or reckless, nor dithering along affecting everyone else getting places.

People who dither seem to find this idea almost impossible to comprehend.

So you can't define it then....

Thought not.

Just that most respect speed limits
Yet again another variation of "anyone who finds ditherers and people pootling along unreasonable and irritating mustn't follow the speed limit".

Gosh. It really is quite funny how the idea that there are:

1. People who speed and drive recklessly or aggressively
2. Majority of drivers who driver appropriately for the conditions and make reasonable progress
3. People who dither and pootle (either because they lack competence of are deliberately showing zero consideration to any other road user)

could possibly get so many objections.

It's almost like group 3 are convinced of their own righteousness that they are willing to pretend group 2 and the vast majority of drivers simply don't exist and conclude anyone who disagree with them must be in group 1.

chomalungma
Aka "people won't give me numbers for something that is entirely dependent on the road features, context, speed limit, visibility, sun brightness and direction of sun, time of day, the presence of warnings signs for hazards, distance from junctions, weather, levels of water on the road, traffic flow, amount of traffic etc" so now I think I've made some stellar point and will deliver it with such sanctimonious snugness despite it making zero sense

lola

I suspect that you do get a little wound up by drivers...don't you...

chomalungma
No more than minor irritation in daily life.

What's hilarious and baffling on this thread is the sheer lack of logic from a lot of posters trying to argue that there's nothing unreasonable about behaviour that the vast majority would find annoying.

Like I've said (and many posters have said), reasonable progress is entirely dependent on the road and conditions. Yet posters such as yourself insist on saying "but define it, but subjective, but numbers, but fast drivers, but tailgaters, but you won't give me exact numbers that would cover every situation therefore it can't be defined and this dithering and driving unreasonably slow cant be a thing".

It's hilarious but also changes my view on pootlers. On the whole I tend to have taken the view that most are probably a bit incompetent and lack road awareness. This thread shows me there's a whole group of ditherers who actually believe anyone wanting to drive at a legal speed that is safe for the conditions is a fast driver, must be a speeder, must need to leave more time etc like some sort of funny road police.

I’m a brand new driver and still quite nervous especially on narrow, windy roads. If I pulled over every time 3 or 4 cars were behind me I’d never bloody get anywhere!

I understand it can be annoying but if people who weren’t confident just didn’t drive there would be no one on the roads at all. It takes experience to be confident. If you were suddenly an uber-confident driver the second you passed your test, then I think you are a very rare species!

I don't mind going slow behind someone, at some point an opportunity to pass will come along

If you regularly find that your journey takes half an hour longer than expected owing to traffic conditions then it's fair to say that you've underestimated your journey time

Intentionally putting yourself into a situation where you may need to rush owing to minor and foreseeable delays is just really bad planning

helpmeiamatoad
There's a normal level of caution and then there's unreasonably slow. Some instructors are better at showing the difference than others. As a very nervous learner I swapped instructors and it made a massive difference.

It's normal to be a bit nervous as a new driver. We've all been there. The thing to remember, as my instructor put it, is that we form our habits early on so someone who gets into the habit of being very hesitant, nervous, overly cautious, much slower than most traffic will tend to stay that way unless they make a conscious effort not to be (same in reverse if it's a boy racer type over confident with poor risk perception).

If you're regularly getting trains of people behind you then that's probably a sign that you're out from the majority (and contrary to what some may say on here, the majority aren't boy racer types). If you're still uncertain then pass plus type lessons can be useful for specific areas. I know someone who had a couple for motorway driving for example.

Not sure i believe that stuff about habit forming. New drivers are just that, new drivers. They will take time to get up to the superior driving standards of the fast and furious crew!

helpmeiamatoad I feel your pain. I feel like a new driver even after five months, and I know there's been times when I have been going as fast as I dared, nowhere to stop and just having to keep going.

Today I forgot to pick up my P plates after the car wash and I am now P-less. Now when I'm trying to work out what I'm doing on an unfamiliar road, people will just think I'm a twat.

Vulpine that's why I'm trying to go somewhere new every weekend. I'm still too nervous to go on the motorways, but I did 90 miles the other weekend, though only 16 this weekend. It's really hard sometimes when you get into the Pennines.

Some of you may have grumbled at me, though I think I was doing okay around Holmfirth and Brighouse.

helpme in addition to what lola says, depending on your area I’d also suggest you find some easier roads to practice on. You can also practice the skills needed for tight turns in an emptyish car park. Admittedly not at speed, but if you’re cornering correctly, rather than simply getting away with dodgy skills because it’s low speed, the skill is transferable.

Also, you probably need to relax your elbows. I’ve noticed people taught in the conventional way age 17+ are more likely to get tense arms. Which then leads to a vicious circle of feeling less able to steer and gripping more.

vulpine really? You only need to go through a busy car park or read threads on here to notice how shit at parking many drivers still are when they are way past the new stage. How do you explain that if it’s not habit?

meckity if you can, try and follow a large, slow vehicle. That way you can get an idea of the road outlay by watching their cornering, and as they won’t be going as fast as an experienced driver you can keep up with them and not have to worry about tailgating.

Although if you’re driving round there I strongly suggest you get an instructor to take you on the motorway, because it’s infinitely easier than those types of road. I don’t live near there but a friend lived in Manchester and we went to Holmfirth a few times. And I can quite understand why a new driver might not look at some of the smaller roads for the first time and feel filled with confidence.

+1 for taking a motorway driving lesson once you've passed the normal test. My son has just done it and he was very glad he did as he's no longer afraid of the motorway.

They will take time to get up to the superior driving standards of the fast and furious crew!
And another "if you find dithering annoying then you must be a fast and angry driver" assertion.
Its really quite comical.

The vast majority of drivers are neither fast and furious or ditherers.

You only need to go through a busy car park or read threads on here to notice how shit at parking many drivers still are when they are way past the new stage. How do you explain that if it’s not habit?
Exactly. That's what my instructor said.
It's also surprised me how many people I know won't drive to new places because they only like driving in the area they know.

It's absolutely a case of what you're used to and what you do lots of. Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent.

If people get used to writing sloppily then that becomes their default. If athletes use a motion regularly then that becomes their normal, whether it's the best movement or not. If people park their cars over the white line routinely then that becomes their normal. If people potter along roads much slower than the majority of reasonable traffic that becomes how they drive. If they are used to speeding and doing 35mph in a 30 because they think they're better and would spot a speed camera then they'll get used to 'just pushing it a little bit'. And so on.

most respect speed limits pity that those who drive rigidly at 29mph appear unable to indicate (at all or correctly), get in the right lane, or generally drive well.

The vast majority of drivers are neither fast and furious or ditherers Not sure, I seem to have people tail gating/beeping me for not overtaking a cyclist when it's dangerous etc, or be stuck behind Mr or Mrs Dawdle. Rarely does it seem to be the happy medium.

I'm glad i didn't read this this thread as a new driver.

[[https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203 Rule 169 of the Highway Code says that slow-moving vehicles should be pulling in so faster vehicles can overtake.

YANBU!

Oops: Rule 169.

Not sure if i’ve missed this being mentioned in the thread but recently there was a news article asking people to drive below the speed limit. It was saying that if everyone drove 10mph under the speed limit the amount of fatalities would be significantly reduced.

I hate driving and rarely go over 50. So I very rarely go on a roads (i’ll Do 60 with my buttocks clenched and stomach tight in mid mild panic attack) and I have never been on a motorway. I learned that in good conditions you should be doing the speed limit or very close under and that not doing so would be a failure to make progress. But I do think everyone drives too fast and even as a passenger I grip the door handle and do box breathing sometimes muttering ‘oh Jesus’.

I'm glad i didn't read this this thread as a new driver.
Why?
Serious question because I was worried about learning to drive so put it off and a really nervous learner who drove too slowly. I was very twitchy about potential hazards that weren't really going to be an issue etc. My driving instructor was amazing and covered much what many people have said on here and I am honestly grateful for his input because I'm a much better driver as a result of that than him pretending it's not an issue, or encouraging me to take my test before I was really a confident enough driver to manage independently.

One of my family friends is a very twitchy driver. They are technically competent with controls etc and were fine on well-rehearsed test routes, but they're not a well rounded driver, they're nervous at junctions, and they dither - especially on unfamiliar routes. Personally, I think their driving instructor should have urged them to get a bit more confident in a range of settings before sitting their test rather than encouraged them through as soon as it looked like they'd have passed. They've been driving years now and they are still the same sort of driver they were when they passed their test.

On reflection I think my driving instructor prepared me better as a driver for life rather than just to get me through a test.

There are a lot of roads in my area with no speed limit signs they are quick to book you for speeding though