To think in Titanic Cal and Roses mother weren’t that bad?

[RoryGlory]

Watching as a young teen I always thought Cal and Ruth were awful people. But now I don’t see it so black and white, as in there are no goodies or baddies.

Cal loved Rose in his own way and it just have been pretty heartbreaking to watch your fiancée sneak about with another person and then sleep with them.

Ruth was just a product of her environment. Must be scary to leave the only world you’ve ever known and become poor - obviously much harsher conditions back then.

I mean Cal smacks her around the face and clearly thinks scaring her into doing what he wants is the only way forward. As for her mother, well you are probably right, she is a product of her time... but equally she’s a cow so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Those practices still exist today in quite a few cultures very close to home, so yeah.

Cal was controlling and violent. Yabu. "Not that bad" is why abused women stay with their partners. Any level of abuse is bad. The only acceptable level is none.

The mother yes, but the fiance man was violent, aggressive and wanted to force sex on her, which is far less ok.

Although none of the characters were particularly true to the era or or real life. Everything was very much seen through a prism of our modern world and the rose tinted glasses of film.

It’s a good job they weren’t together when the ship started sinking because she would’ve been the one clinging onto that door...

Cal didn’t love Rose, he wanted to possess her.

Ruth is being abundantly practical. It makes me very happy to live in a world where I can easily earn my own money and therefore have the freedom to only partner for love.

Cal wanted her as a young, naive pliable trophy for his arm. He knew her family had no money and she had little choice but to marry him. He was exploiting that and abusing her. He was vile.

Her mother was in a panic about being penniless and using the only resource she had at her disposal- her unmarried daughter.

The mother yes, but the fiance man was violent, aggressive and wanted to force sex on her, which is far less ok.

When did he force sex on her?

He (Cal) grabs Rose at breakfast and whispers (aggressively) "I thought you were going to come to me last night..." or words to that effect.

As an aside, Billy Zane is dreamy looking in that film but playing a total b*#t**@d*!

When he tossed the breakfast dishes across the floor he snarled at her about behaving like a wife should even if she wasnt yet his wife (not verbatim)

@RoryGlory - he didn't actually force sex on her, but he tried. All that "you will honour me in the way that a wife is required to honour her husband" rubbish, and the throwing furniture around at her when she didn't come to him in the night.

Cal was a piece of shit from the start; Rose was simply a trophy his money allowed him to have. In real life there are still so many people with that awful, awful attitude, and it needs recognising and stamping on.

Ruth cared more for money than happiness. We learn why, but it's never really an excuse, is it? Pushing your child to marry someone who'll keep the family name afloat at the expense of your child's happiness? Not a choice I'd make.

I can totally understand the mother's motivation though, and there was nothing out of place with it for the time and the class they were. Yes, looked at through our current time it's awful, but what were her alternatives realistically in that time period for a woman in her position? She wasn't to know quite how violent and unpleasant he was - he was rich, handsome, superficially very charming and apparently in love with her daughter, why would she argue against that?

Cal was vile. Ruth I have a bit more sympathy for. The script was simplistic 'do you want me to take in mending' or something similar but I'm not sure what options she had. Perhaps she'd had to marry who she was told to for the same reason and at least had a house and clothing etc. It's hard to imagine a world without any options at all for women of a certain class with no idea how to survive as a cleaner for example.

He (Cal) grabs Rose at breakfast and whispers (aggressively) "I thought you were going to come to me last night..." or words to that effect.

Well that never happened.

They were both horrid.
Cal wanted a trophy wife and something he could force into something she wasn’t.
Her mum put money above her daughters happiness - but maybe I see this through eyes of someone who is allowed to work regardless of my gender

Ruth cared more for money than happiness. We learn why, but it's never really an excuse, is it? Pushing your child to marry someone who'll keep the family name afloat at the expense of your child's happiness? Not a choice I'd make.

But that’s because you live in present and have a thousand more options available to you.

I think it’s silly to compare the two.

Pretty sure he throws stuff at breakfast because he knows she was with Jack all night - not because she didn’t go to him at night

Pretty sure he throws stuff at breakfast because he knows she was with Jack all night - not because she didn’t go to him at night

She didn’t go to him because she was with jack.

He (Cal) grabs Rose at breakfast and whispers (aggressively) "I thought you were going to come to me last night..." or words to that effect. Well that never happened

Yes, it did -
"Damn it, Rose, you will honour me in the way a woman is supposed to honour her husband!"
Then he upturned the table smashing everything.
Because she didn't sleep with him the night before.

He was violent, stuck up and snobbish.
Her mum was awful too, she looked down on people she deemed "beneath" her, such as the jolly lady (Molly?) who she openly sneered at.
Didn't seem to care if Rose was happy or not, just wanted her married off to someone rich so she could bring them money.

I actually think Cal seems worse now than when I first saw the film.

I can forgive Ruth for forcing Rose to marry Cal as both of their options were limited at the time but can’t forgive her for her comment “will the boats be seated according to class” when people were dying around her.

@RoryGlory - he didn't actually force sex on her, but he tried. All that "you will honour me in the way that a wife is required to honour her husband" rubbish, and the throwing furniture around at her when she didn't come to him in the night.

I disagree. He was angry that she went drinking/dancing with third class - which a first class lady shouldn’t do at that time.

He told her not to do it again and to honour and therefore obey him by doing as she’s told. Not to honour him by having sex with him.

I just think ultimately you shouldn’t compare how women were viewed back in 1912 to how they are viewed over 100 years later.

Cal would have been brought up and surrounded by other men who would treat all women the same. How would he know any different?

It of course doesn’t make it right but that’s how things were back then.

I can forgive Ruth for forcing Rose to marry Cal as both of their options were limited at the time but can’t forgive her for her comment “will the boats be seated according to class” when people were dying around her.

No one was dying around her. She was on one of the first boats and there was no panic at that point.

Also guessing by the fact she asked the maid to warm up her room for when she got bs k I very doubt she thought the boat would actually sink.

Not sure what the point of asking if you’re BU if every time someone responds you’re just going to say “you’re wrong, it was different times. You can’t judge”