To worry about where the money for dementia care will come from

[Potatoduster]

If the NHS is already stretched how on earth will it cope with a huge surge of the baby boomers needing dementia care and wanting the NHS to fully fund it?

I would like to make a quick point. Thank you to all care workers/nurses involved in dementia care

Totally agree TheFaerieQueene. My dm also had a wonderful team looking after her in her care home. They were so gentle and kind with her and interested to know what sort of person she had been before dementia turned her into an empty shell. A couple of them came to her funeral. Can never thank them enough.

My dsis and I spent a lot of time in that care home over 2 years (we rarely missed a day) and never witnessed anything other than kindness from the staff - despite them working ridiculous 12 hour shifts and being paid nowhere near what they deserved.

If the NHS is already stretched how on earth will it cope with a huge surge of the baby boomers needing dementia care and wanting the NHS to fully fund it?

Given that so many people live unhealthy lifestyles, I think life expectancy is starting to fall again, as people are starting to die earlier due to obesity etc., so I think fewer "baby boomers" will live long enough to get dementia. Just stand outside a secondary school, or walk down a High Street and you can see lots of "fat" people. 20/30 years ago, it was just the occasional person (usually older), but not it seems the majority, at ever younger ages.

Coolandcalm17 - you really don't have a fucking clue do you?

*Surely they have to give patients with dementia all lifesaving treatment, unless they have already signed consent not to?

You can't say "this person has cancer but we wont try to treat them because they have dementia" unless you have consent from them*

Medics absolutely do Say this. Decisions are made in a persons best interests if they can't make them themselves.

In terms of the NHS paying for dementia care, they will if the person is severe enough to have a nursing need. This is termed continuing health care and means all costs are met. For those who don't have this need, it is considered social care and you have to pay yourself if you can. This is because it covers food, electricity, housing etc rather than care needs per se.

In terms of the funding lottery, when you consider that it is social costs not health costs that are being met, it's no different to the inequity that exists for the rest of our lives really. I have a good job/savings so I have to pay all my own housing costs; Mr X down the road doesn't work so gets housing benefit. It's just the old age version of the same thing

Medievalist
Oh sod off, I’ve made the point carers don’t get anywhere near enough for the fucking good job they do, and you tell me I don’t have a clue. My Dm was in a care home. They deserve more.

@SnuggyBuggy and others who don't want to go through this themselves. Fill in this form today to decline treatment in future. I've done one, it doesn't take long. You can give copies to GP and family members.

My Dm was in a care home. They deserve more.

They deserve more because ......? They do a bloody difficult job that's why. And one that, when looking after a 90 year old with advanced dementia, requires a great deal of skill and experience. For you to say in such a cavalier way that you would look after your grandmother at home rather than pay exorbitant nursing fees suggests a complete lack of understanding of what that would involve.

People with dementia are less likely to get treatment for other major conditions as they cannot give informed consent that they understand the risks and benefits. Arrangements can be made for next of kin to sign

My Sil cared for my Mil at home. It was demanding but for her very rewarding. My DH and his other siblings would all help out but for them they wouldn't have had it any other way. She went for respite now and again. So it CAN be done. Nursing home fees are extortionate.

But not everyone has the same needs @separatelives. Some people with dementia fall 20 times a day. Some people will hit, kick, pull hair, bite whenever they need to receive personal care and need 3 carers to do this. Some will be extremely underweight as they are not eating and need careful repositioning every hour to stop their skin from breaking down. Some will choke most mealtimes and need to be fed a certain consistency food and drink, at the right angle (needing two people to get them in that position) and need to be fed by trained staff.

Not everyone can be cared at home. Not everyone has the same experience of dementia.

As I said upthread, most people who are in care homes have been cared for at home for months or years but sometimes it is not possible.

IPeople with dementia are less likely to get treatment for other major conditions as they cannot give informed consent that they understand the risks and benefits. Arrangements can be made for next of kin to sign*

This isn't strictly true. No adult can give consent on behalf of another incapacitated adult (unless you have power of attorney for health and welfare). Treatment would be given in your best interests but this is limited to treatment for life saving conditioners.

General treatment is given under the mental capacity act, which is a legal framework and not up to the NOK to decide

@Potatoduster

Working in that field for a bit really opened my eyes to the realities of old age and in particular dementia! I was younger then and thought that old people just sat in front of a TV with a shawl around them and did jigsaws and drank cups of tea and just needed a bit of help with a few things. How naive was I

Meant to tag @NerrSnerr sorry

My grandmother has a DNR but that doesn't make much difference when you are constantly fracturing or breaking limbs, falling in your head, contracting UTIs because you don't know that you have the body of a 90 year old.

Having had a relative recently die from it I’m hoping that some form of euthanasia is available or ill sign a directive that I only want to receive palliative care and no actual treatment.
The relative’s care was funded by the local authority. If you have a living spouse your house cannot be sold to fund care. Not sure what happened to pension.
Nhs won’t prolong life of a dementia patient artificially but they will give treatment for infections.

Absolute bollox separatelives - that’s your experience (one my mum experienced w my grandma but it was tough as), but impossible with other relative.

Coolandcalm17, one minute you are saying £1400 for nursing home care is a rip off, next you say they should charge more, which is it to be

Thing is cool that a good nursing or care home which provides that care should see thee individual as far more than a collection of symptoms. The person isn’t just someone who eats, eliminates and needs washing daily (if they cannot wash themselves), these are human beings so there should be activities too. .

This is what the £1400 a week buys.

Caring for a relative who has dementia yourself is hard physical work with little in the way of respite . So you may employ Carers, what happens if they go sick or just don’t turn up? This is the reality for many people who care for relatives.

My in laws own their own home, they are in their 80s fit and well. My husband and his sisters would not hesitate to sell the home to pay for specialist care if their parents needed it. The house and benefit of it is THEIRS and should be used to buy the very best care possible if needed.

Obviously if people choose to care for a relative then that’s great but they should not do so for financial reasons. I’ve seen too many cases of elderly abuse where this has occurred. The individual manipulated into living with relatives and getting poor care as opposed to being in a dedicated care home where they’d get superior care. All so the child can inherit. And that is pretty grasping and disgusting

I honestly don't know how this patient with dementia found himself on that treatment, the odds of it curing his cancer were also miniscule. I wonder if it was his family that pushed for it. The situation just sounded horrible and the treatment didn't even work.

@coolandcalm17
Do you actually have a clue about what you are saying?

I think if I had a 90 year old grandmother paying £1.400 a week to a care home I’d have her living with me. Probably not practical but at least not being ripped off
In one post you say you wouldn’t put a relative in a care home, then a few posts later we get
my dm was in a care home. They deserve more

If care is so easy why did you put your dm in care?

My grandmother deteriorated very quickly from dementia and then ended up in hospital for a few weeks. She was discharged home and we (the family) didn’t last a week trying to provide care for her. Carers for the day we’re fine, but the overnights and weekend were killers. I did one overnight and spent the whole night walking up and down the hallway with her, basically carrying her as her legs were so tired they couldn’t support her weight. She didn’t understand she was tired and needed to sleep. I then worked all day. Each person who wanted to be part of the decision about her future care took a turn over night and it was unanimous that she needed to go in to residential care. We all knew that there was no way we could care for her at home.

As for who pays for care in old age/dementia. My grandmother earns more from her pension than I do from working full time. Of course she should be funding her own care! Should my income tax go up so the state can fund it?

I am fed up having this conversation with baby boomers (my parents/in laws/neighbours) who are cross that there inheritance is being eroded away because it is being used to fund the care of their parents. That is exactly what the money should be paying for.

However for those that don’t have big pensions or homes to sell, I don’t know what the answer is. I guess these people have very little choice about where they end up living and there care home won’t be as nice as the one we have dgm in, but will provide the basic care the resident needs. As I say, No idea what the answer to that is though.

I would have my relative live with me and pay for night carer and some day care. I would not put them in a home.

As a teen I helped my mother look after my grandmother and in my early twenties the same for my grandfather.

Care homes are necessary and needed but they are a rip off when they pay the staff so poorly. Also I think lots of family make excuses when if they all pitched in the burden can be shared willingly. But in my mother's case all care fell to her and her 4 siblings very rarely did anything over a period of 15 years.

Now my mum is getting older, not actually old (62) but has been recovering from cancer, luckily her 3 children have all pitched in and I hope we all continue to do so as she ages.

Also I do see medical interventions and operations as a waste for someone who has had dementia a while. In the early stages there is comfort and a quality of life. However in the decline and when declined, why? what is the point?

We need a "Mary kills people" in this country. Euthanasia should absolutely be a thing in these cases.

We do more for cats and dogs then we do our human loved ones.

I would have my relative live with me and pay for night carer and some day care. I would not put them in a home.

Have you read the thread. Some people with dementia need more than a night carer and some day care. If they need 2-3 carers to chance their clothes and they have been incontinent at night who is going to do it? What if they are hell bent on escaping day and night, trying to climb out of all windows, upstairs and downstairs and looking for things to break the glass with when it's locked?

Dementia does not present the same in everyone and there are many different kinds of dementias. Someone with Alzheimer's disease will prevent differently to someone with FTD or Lewy Body.

Only those people with less than £28,000 is assets have their dementia care funded by the local authority.

Everyone else has to pay themselves. ( And self financers are subsidising local authority patients.My DGM paid more than double the amount the LA was paying for their patients in the same home). So I think the problem is exaggerated for the moment.

The real problem will come when the generation which has never owned their own home and does not have decent pensions requires dementia care and will not have the assets to meet their own (and others) costs.

Baby boomers as a generation are extremely wealthy. They will be fine. Most will be able to pay through pensions and assets likehouses. The rest will probably depend on the tax payer- you get generations are used tocoughing up. The ones who will be really screwed are millennials and their children who will either have to provide the care themselves or pay unlivably high rates of tax.

Yes I read the thread. And care homes have there place. Both my grandparents had dementia.

However me personally I would not put my mum into a home. We managed to look after my grandparents and we would manage again if my mum ever got dementia or anything else.