to contact social services about parental alienation

[medicellen]

I have done some mumsnet research to find out if people have been in a similar situation but to no avail, so your advice would be most welcome.

I left ex-H 18m ago due to emotional and financial abuse - it was the best decision I ever made. Although I knew in my heart that 50/50 care of our 4yr-DS was probably not in his best interests, I couldnt face the toxicity of taking it to court, so we made an informal arrangement for 50/50.
There have been various times over the last 18m when DS has been distraught and sometimes violent towards me. I thought it had settled down but recently things have escalated again. I suspect that there is parental alienation going on - examples of things my son has said include:

"You should have told my daddy that you weren't happy" (we went to relate twice and he was told that his behaviour was abusive)
Daddy is very lonely without you and wants to do anything to get you back"
"Daddy says you dont wash me properly, but you do."
"Daddy says you are rubbish...no, not that, I cant remember what word he says"

If I contacted social services about this, surely it would be my word against ex-H? This stuff cant be proven? DS has said a couple of similar things in front of my family members but would they not be considered to be "on my side"? I cant imagine the pain of taking this to court (for me and DS), but am thinking about what the best thing for DS would be. Help! and thank-you

I don’t know the answer to this but wanted to say, stay strong. You already got over the first hurdle by leaving. I would think some type of help would be useful as this will be stressful for your DC as well as yourself so perhaps SS is a good starting point.

Thanks for your message. I'm hoping that the combined experience of Mumsnetters can guide me through

I would contact social services.

I would keep a record of everything your DS says with dates, and arrange to speak to your ex about it - is this possible or is he not someone you can reason with?

And in the meantime, if your DS tells you anything else that your ex has said to him, ask him how he feels about it. If he says it makes him feel sad too, make sure you tell your ex that he is making his DS feel sad by burdening him with his feelings and that this has to stop.

When your DS tells you he feels sad, thank him for telling you and suggest you do some fun things together to take his mind off feeling sad. Always make time to listen to what he’s telling you, but focus on how he feels, not on how your ex feels.

I am regularly involved with social services through my work. I can't see any way in which this would reach their thresholds for support. Sorry.

I think all you can do is continue to monitor and record what your ds says and possibly consider trying persuade your ex to go for mediation.

I don't think social services would intervene here.

Do you have concerns about how your DS is cared for when he's not with you?

Not sure social services would get involved, unless you feel your ds is at risk when he goes there. I would do as pp suggested and start a diary. Times and dates, what was said. This will help if you need to go to court. You could also get some advice from a lawyer. Mediation is also great as a first step

Thanks for the comments.

In the past when I have suggested to ex-h that his behaviour or comments are causing ds distress, I get something along the lines of "well you should have thought of that before you broke up our family. You need to take responsibility for what you have done". Mediation likely to be a no go

My ds has volunteered in the past "I don't like it when daddy says nasty things about you"

It is getting more and more difficult to deal with violence towards me as he is increasingly strong

My concern about risk is not immediate but rather long term emotional harm to ds

From what you say, I wouldn't talk about it to DH. He is likely doing this to try to get to you/punish you. If he knows it's having the desired effect I doubt it will stop.

I would keep a record of what DS has said, as others have suggested

I would also talk to DS about it. Explain that mummies and daddies shouldn't say nasty things about each other to their children, especially if it makes them sad. Tell him you're sorry that daddy does this and you promise you won't say bad things about daddy to him (and keep the promise). Tell him that it's okay for him to tell daddy that he doesn't like it when he says hurtful things about mummy - but only if he wants to, he doesn't have to. Reiterate to him that no matter how mummy and daddy feel about each other, they both still love him and always will. He's likely feeling very insecure about your relationship with him and is acting out to test that (because if you "rejected" daddy, maybe you would reject him too). So make your focus on giving him a secure attached relationship with you and reiterating that you love him and you always will, especially when he's acting up.

You will be beneath the threshold for SS support but I would recommend calling them anyway - that way there will be a record of this in their system if things ever did get worse.

If i were you i would start making a diary & if it carries on i would stop contact.

Its not the same but in 2017 i got an injunction against my abusive ex and the courts made the injunction so he wasnt allowed to contact any child of the family

Before the injunction expired i applied to get it extended and sent in lots of evidence with it which was mostly texts off him telling me the kids will hate me when their older & he'll tell them what a cunt i am ect,

The courts extended the injunction for 2 years & when its time for it to expire ill be extending it again.

My sister & i were brought up with my mum badmouthing my dad & making me feel bad for spending time with him. It is very easily to turn children against their parents if thats what someone wants to do. Its not a healthy enviroment for a child to be in

Is there any therapy/support available for DS? I’d explore that as an option.

Please please please contact social services regarding this. NSPCC, Carcass and family lawyers are finally beginning to take this more seriously, as they should.

By reporting your concerns you can escalate it and ask for advice on how to deal with it, and will get more help if you decide to go further. Keep a record of what is said and behaviour after he has been with his dad. Do not stop contact yet as he may turn it against you. Speak to social services first. This is a form of controlling and coersive abuse.

This is an area close to my heart and the main focus of my masters in law

I’m not sure about social services, but I would definitely get some advice from a solicitor specialising in family law. It doesn’t mean you have to take things to court right now, but you will know where you stand. Also consider getting in touch with women’s aid. They offer wonderful support to women and children who have been effected by domestic abuse. That includes emotional abuse.

SS are not going to give a fuck, sorry.

Once school is back in I'd suggest approaching pastoral care. Possibly with a referral to CAMHS.

I know CAMHS varies by area but in the east midlands I found them incredibly helpful.

Thank-you all so much for this.

Real mermaid - although I have said some of these things to ds you have given me some other ideas about what to say, and reassurance that the behaviour is due to insecurity. I have to try and remember this at the time when he is furious

If I wanted to stop contact, would I go through ss or cafcass?

Will also find out about local camhs. If not, am in fortunate position to find a therapist

The thing is that you can stop contact - just tell ex that he is not having DS and refuse to allow him out of your house. You do not need permission from anyone as there is not currently a court order in place.

Whether that this wise will depend on the expected actions of your Ex. He could just walk away. He could go straight to court as report that you will not allow him to see ds and could aim for the parent alienation himself, or he could just take him from school or wherever he goes as assuming he has parental responsiblity then he can do just that and school cannot stop him.

The best way forward for this is the court route - and a good solicitor sadly.

In the past when I have suggested to ex-h that his behaviour or comments are causing ds distress, I get something along the lines of "well you should have thought of that before you broke up our family. You need to take responsibility for what you have done

What a shame he doesn’t realise this isn’t about the separation.This is about him frightening his own child by sharing his angry feelings about the separation. If that’s his response, I agree with PP that there is no point trying to reason with him about this. Best to focus on your DS and helping him to manage his feelings.

By speaking to SS you get in there before him with your concerns, especially if you decide to stop contact.

Get a decent solicitor and speak to them about making a custody order. The court will apply to cafcass.

If you have any texts or answer phone messages then keep them. Speak to women's aid and they will advise you on your options. Domestic abuse is something that police are clamping down on and there are some amazing domestic abuse councillors who will take you through each process and offer you support through applications and any court case, as well as building evidence. But you need to start by raising concerns with the powers that be. If you stop contact with no reason then he can claim that you are trying to alienate your son. If you properly report and collect evidence then you can show this to court and it may be that contact is issued through a contact centre, which means he couldn't get away with saying these things. How old is your child, speaking to the school may also help your case.

If I wanted to stop contact would I go through CAFCASS?

OP are you sure your motivation for reporting this isn't to stop contact? This would be nowhere near the threshold for preventing contact. By all means speak to NSPCC but SS will not have time for this at this stage. As pps suggested keep a diary and focus on keeping a secure, positive relationship with your son with consistent boundaries.

I would report - but not expect help yet - its about building a story - a friend of mine got help for her early teen through court order and cafcass involvement. It was more serious in many ways (some physical action towards the child and other in appropriate behaviours) but the outcome was initially indirect contact but then due to content, no contact. Partner is up the wall about it but its their behaviour that has caused the outcome - child now has counseling and a no of issues including trauma

There is no role for children’s services here, unfortunately. You can stop contact at any time but you’ll need to get yourself a decent family solicitor. If dad peruses a court order a Children’s Guardian will be appointed, with whom you can discuss all your concerns and the reasons for stopping contact. You need to think very carefully about completely stopping contact though, is it truly in your child’s best interests?

No I would not want to stop contact completely, for ds and exh sakes. But have heard that an approach to alienation is for the child to spend more time with the parent who is being alienated. Given current behaviour that prospect is daunting but may be better for ds