Tried veganism, felt dreadful—anyone else?

[stopgap]

So I was vegetarian for eight years (age 12-20) and vegan for a year (age 29). I’m now 42, and with the climate crisis raging, I’m wondering if I should try again.

BUT

I felt so hopelessly ill as a vegetarian and even more so as a vegan, with constant colds, hair loss etc. I struggle with iron and B12 absorption, and my current regimen of eating meat twice a week plus supplementation does zilch for increasing my ferritin levels, as my periods are extremely heavy, and I’m also autoimmune. Since my brief vegan phase I’ve also been diagnosed celiac, making a vegan diet even trickier.

Anyone conquered similar issues to become a healthy vegan? Or are some people just not suited to eating this way?

There seems to be a little bit of misunderstanding on this thread.

Vitamin B12 is the only nutrient that is not available naturally in plant based foods. The body cannot make it either. Some health conditions make it more difficult to absorb this vitamin -Crohn's disease, coeliac disease, some other auto immune conditions, and/or if you are taking PPI medications like omeprazole, lansoprazole

The OP has already stated that she is coeliac.

Fortunately quite a few vegan foods have B12 supplements, but there are some people who simply can't absorb B12 and have to have regular B12 injections.

Regardless of whether you want to believe it or not haem iron is more easily absorbed that non haem iron. Most people can absorb enough iron from non haem sources, but there is s small minority of people who can't, and require iron supplements.

Just to qualify - OH had had major stomach surgery so I have had to do a lot of research and obtain advice from dieticians.

I'm thriving as a vegan - I had a smooth pregnancy and am breastfeeding for one year + and I'm very pro vegan diets. However personally I would find it very tough if I was also coeliac. I think I could cope if I had lots of time to prep all my meals, but eating out as a coeliac vegan sounds very tough! Maybe try Vegan at home (when you have easier control) and if you need to eat non vegan when you're out?

I found that I felt ok as a vegan but my skin looked pretty crap. I only stuck it out for 6 months and this was in the 90s so I know a lot of helpful research has been done since then. It's probably easier to do it now and be healthy.

If it's purely for environmental reasons though then there will be other changes you can make to your diet that don't involve being vegan. Do your research and choose responsibly sourced local produce, cut down on certain things etc.

@noodlenosefraggle if I do buy pork, I try and buy the most expensive ethical pork I can, usually from the local farm shop. I know UK farmers follow higher welfare standards than some other EU countries, particularly for pork production, but it's not as easy to buy free range pork and think you are doing a good thing, because apparently, depending on the weather pigs should be inside some months of the year. And the problem (ethically for me) is that pigs are intelligent, social animals which also happen to grow rapidly so are a cheap animal to farm intensively. I know lambs are generally by default grass fed outside as sheep don't tend to come in except for lambing, so I know they have a fairly natural life.

Beef cattle take 2 years to get to maturity, they will generally live in over winter in large barns being fed the best feed as they are such an investment.

Chickens are treated horrendously, not just the eggs we buy from the supermarket but also products that we buy containing eggs. M and S are the only supermarket I know that uses only free range eggs in its own products, so even though you might buy free range eggs, some products we buy contains eggs from battery hens. Aldi do a free range whole chicken for between £5 and £6 so I buy those, because it's the best I can afford.

I always buy British meat, and British everything if I can. And try and eat as seasonally as possible but some things just aren't produced in the UK, like tinned tomatoes or the advocados dd likes so much.

I think if we all just do a bit better by just thinking a bit more about what we buy and how we eat there is no need for a vegan lifestyle. It's a choice everyone is free to make, but unless you can do the vegan lifestyle without it having a negative impact environmentally then you can't say you are doing it for environmental reasons. Welfare reasons yes, because any animal products have implications for the welfare of the animals. But not environmental ones.

Remember we all have different metabolisms. And there are lots of ways to skin a cat.

If I were vegan I think I would end up eating MORE volume-wise as I think I would be more hungry.

Currently I eat two meals a day; one meal a day is certainly doable if you’re sedentary.

I did an experiment-meat only. Yes it was really grim because I love veggies but I soon lost all appetite and became full on very little. I considered giving up eating altogether.

All the things I find filling are animal based hence the 1-2 meals a day

All the things that cause havoc with my blood sugar are plant based - especially cereal grains which I do not eat anymore

Some people have problems with legumes, fruit and nightshades

I don’t know anyone who has a meat allergy, however.

Vegan seems a high carb low fat diet upon which I believe I would see pre-diabetes within a few years.

I was vegetarian for 5 years. I tried going 3 times. Each time, I cut things out gradually, done my research, cooked lots of healthy meals from scratch, etc. However,every time I felt awful. Never full, no energy, nails breaking, and even ending up with IBS on the third attempt. I started CRAVING meat. I caved in the end and had salmon, chicken and steak within a few days. And felt better almost immediately. So now I do eat meat. But only from a local butcher with only local, grass fed meat (they rear most of it themselves). I also have organic eggs and dairy, and don't touch any products that have been tested on animals. So I do my bit even if I'm not perfect. I don't eat meat every day and rarely twice in one day, but I feel better. My body just can't adjust to being vegan.

I tried being vegan, however something about it wasn't great for me so went back to vegetarian.

One thing I found made me struggle was after being told to adjust my diet due to my cholesterol levels, I was feeling awful with reduced fat dairy. I think that some of the vegan substitutions may have had the same effect on me.

Vegan seems to take a lot more dedication than vegetarian, and determination. It wasn't for me, I wanted to do it for ethical reasons.

I wonder if all the diets we see now will have a detrimental effect in the future. I come from a family that live into their 80's and the only dietary changes were caused by the war, so mainly a balanced diet. No-one in the family was overweight, no gyms, no vegans or vegetarians.

I agree with you frouby My family have only recently gone vegetarian mainly for environmental reasons and I was shocked at the carbon footprint of some of the products. Vegan sausage rolls flown in cooked and packaged from South Africa as an example, avocadoes, almonds, coconut all flown from the far eas t or South America, as well as the massive lists of ingredients. When we did eat meat, it was far easier to eat local. I'd be happy eating one meat meal a week but the kids refuse and I don't want to discourage them when they have really thought about the environment and have developed rational arguments!

Sorry OP, I’m probably not much help as when I went vegan fifteen years ago I felt fine, no different to being vegetarian or when I was omnivorous. I would speak to your GP for a referral to a dietician for advice as there’s nothing you can only get from an omnivorous diet you can’t get from a vegan diet other than b12, which is easily resolved by either taking supplements or getting it from food fortified with it. I eat cereal, drink soya milk, eat soya yoghurts etc and so many vegan and non vegan foods are fortified with b12 these days.

@GirlRaisedInTheSouth

Just wondering if you made your statements with knowledge of the implications of celiac disease for digestion and absorption of many key nutrients, including iron and B12? I would be interested to see the evidence that has led you to "think" this is rubbish?

This paper explains the differences in absorption between heme and non-heme iron academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/91/5/1461S/4597424

but for anyone who can't be bothered following links, here's the relevant bit:
"There are 2 types of dietary iron: nonheme iron, which is present in both plant foods and animal tissues, and heme iron, which comes from hemoglobin and myoglobin in animal source foods. Heme iron is estimated to contribute 10–15% of total iron intake in meat-eating populations, but, because of its higher and more uniform absorption (estimated at 15–35%), it could contribute ≥40% of total absorbed iron (4, 5). Nonheme iron is usually much less well absorbed than heme iron. All nonheme food iron that enters the common iron pool in the digestive tract is absorbed to the same extent, which depends on the balance between the absorption inhibitors and enhancers and the iron status of the individual. It is important, however, to note that not all fortification iron enters the common pool"

For anyone struggling with iron deficiency anaemia, whether veggie, vegan or omnivore, vitamin C is an excellent enhancer of iron absorption, both for heme and non-heme. Try to consume some vitamin C containing food with every meal, or consider a low dose supplement to take with meals.

It is possible to meet all nutritional requirements from a well planned vegan diet for MOST people. The well planned bit is critically important here though, and to plan well you need decent understanding of nutritional science.

For people who already have to restrict their diet due to other health concerns, in particular diseases which affect the digestive tract, it is very ill advised to omit further food groups. Ethics aside, meat and dairy are rich sources of vital nutrients in forms that are easily absorbed by the body.

Also, if you are vegan or vegetarian, you need to take a B12 supplement. There is absolutely none in plant foods. If you grew up eating meat and dairy you will likely have B12 stores in your liver that will sustain you for a few years, but without a supplement you will eventually become deficient. A bacteria derived B12 supplement will ensure your requirements are met though (there's questions over how effective nutritional yeast is as a B12 supplement).

OP - You really do need to balance your own health with your ethical concerns. It does sound like you are very conscious and already doing what you feasibly can to reduce your environmental impact under the circumstances, you have no reason to feel guilty, please don't listen to unqualified people who try tell you otherwise. But if you are considering any further changes to your diet I beg that you speak to an impartial (not vegan biased) dietician first, registered with the British Dietetics Association, you can check their registration here: www.bda.uk.com As a diagnosed celiac your GP might be able to refer you to an NHS dietician, but if not make sure you go with a registered one. Nutritionists are a bit of a murky area, although there are some excellent highly qualified ones, nutritionist is not a protected title like dietician is. Also dieticians are the only ones legally allowed to prescribe dietary recommendations as a means of treatment for a health condition.

For anyone without existing health conditions who can't easily get access to an NHS dietician and would like advice from a nutritionist please use an Association for Nutrition registered nutritionist, you can check their registration here www.associationfornutrition.org
Although not a protected title, the ones registered here have advanced degrees in nutrition (from proper universities) and abide by a code of conduct to adhere to scientific evidence based practice.

Avoid the erroneously named BANT (British association for nutrition and lifestyle medicine) and other nutrition organisations. They do not have the code of practice that British dietetics or association for nutrition have. They will register anyone whose done a Groupon course in nutrition as their qualification.

Anyway, this article explains the differences better than me.
angry-chef.com/blog/my-nutritionist-licks-his-own-butt

I hope this info can help you make an informed choice that prioritises your wellbeing and helps you manage your health conditions.

Also, if you are vegan or vegetarian, you need to take a B12 supplement.

This is bollocks. I am vegan, have never taken a B12 supplement in my life and my B12 levels are perfect.

You can buy many foods fortified with B12, such as cereals or Vegemite, if you can’t tolerate cereals.

Also, if you are vegan or vegetarian, you need to take a B12 supplement.

Please don’t state mistruths as fact.

Many, many foods are fortified with b12. Having been vegan for fifteen years, my b12 levels are great, never taken a supplement just get plenty from foods like cereals that are fortified, soya milk and yoghurt, etc.

You can take a b12 supplemental if you like but it’s far from necessary unless you are told you’re low on it. Which can happen to anyone. Plenty of omnis are on b12 injections as they don’t absorb it correctly.9&

I have tried B12 supplements, but they gave me horrendous cystic acne. I believe that B12 and Biotin have been studied and noted as causing breakouts in those who are prone. Plus my B12 levels are within range, just on the low end.

I may, however, investigate ferrous iron supplementation.

Agreed that being celiac and vegan is tricky. I was perusing vegan lunch foods the other day at my local juice bar/vegan cafe, and about 80 percent contained gluten, save for the salads and a couple of rice dishes.

@MeganTheVegan - Ok, I stand corrected. Your personal anecdotal experience trumps all of the scientific research in the world!

Also, you do realise that by eating foods fortified with B12 you are in effect taking a supplement? It's just that it's been mixed into the food?

I literally do not understand this mentality from some vegans. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with veganism at all, you can be a perfectly healthy vegan providing you are knowledgeable about nutrition and take all the appropriate steps to prevent deficiency. I'm trying to impart information that will assist people in being vegan if that's what they chose.

Well, as a family of four, we manage vegan and gluten-free just fine. Happy to share recipes with anyone who’s interested. And we are all in top top health. Both my DC excel in sport and never get sick.

Scientistintraining I can’t believe that you are advocating DAIRY as a good source of nutrients! Dairy has terrible implications for health and leeches calcium from the body. There is absolutely no need for anyone to have dairy, apart from baby cows that is.

I am another who felt unwell on a vegan diet.

My dh and I became vegan at the same time and ate the same carefully planned, healthy diet. He is thriving, his cholesterol halved and he feels amazing as a vegan. I had to stop - low energy, hair loss, bad skin, aching joints (I am hyper mobile, not sure if this is a factor here), low mood - it really didn't work for me. We were eating the same things (healthy) and both had a vegan protein shake each day that contained all nutrients that are difficult to get through a vegan diet.

I am pescatarian - this suits me much better. You have to listen to your body.

@GammaStingRay - Fortification is supplementation!

Some people absorb and utilise yeast derived B12 fine, others don't, which is why I suggested the bacteria derived supplement to be sure requirements are being met, because you can't be sure how the B12 in fortified products was produced. It obviously does work fine for you, which is great. However, for some people it won't.

Like I said, just trying to help those who want to be healthy vegans!

@MeganTheVegan - "Dairy has terrible implications for health and leeches calcium from the body". Can you provide some peer reviewed scientific evidence for this statement please? I'm really interested to learn more.

I've been veggie since I was 12 and never had to take supplements or do any special considerations (although I probably don't actually eat enough protein). However, a friend went vegan and she was totally OK while she could get all the substitute / special stuff, but when she was away somewhere she could basically only eat potatoes and salad for a week and she got sick. But I think everyone reacts in different ways! Some people obviously do fine on it, but others must be more predisposed to get deficiencies and stuff. There is undoubtedly some genetic / ethnic make-up element too.

Scientistintraining your post said that it’s necessary to take a b12 supplement as a vegan, that’s not really the same thing as it being in fortified foods at all. I’m just saying that it’s possible to get adequate b12 from your diet eating certain fortified foods. No need to take a b12 pill unless you want to/your levels are low etc.

Do only vegans eat avocados?

I think I've eaten avocados twice since going vegan.

Oh and I don't drink almond milk either. Am I doing veganism wrong?

Many of the foods that are fortified are things not suitable for coeliacs, e.g. cereals, bread, flour etc.