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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To help my niece

41 replies

Holoqueen · 23/08/2019 20:47

This is long but I don’t want to drip feed.

My Sister in Law is very controlling, very dramatic, very manipulative. Can not stand her. However my husband and I love our niece.

We do as much as we can for her and yes my husband and I constantly get accused of only doing the nice things but her mother has not worked since she was born and her father left before she was born. We have a good lifestyle and have no children so have always doted on her. She is looking at going to University next year. We have taken her to a few university’s and really tried to encourage her to live on site. At first this was a no go for her as she has always been kept on a very tight leash. She has no friends. Her mum controls everything about her life.

We took her to uni an hour and a bit away and explained she could still go home regularly. She fell in love.

This was months ago. Her mum seemed excited about the prospect it was local enough and she could go home. Even talked about what she would do when niece was living in halls. We found out about what niece is entitled to money wise and all was good. She is a very very clever girl and the degree is very intense.

Niece rang in tears today. Her mother has now decided she can’t live out. She has told my niece if she goes then she will lose the house as her benefits etc get cut and so she has to live in and give her mother her loan money. She has also told niece that if she goes then she can not come back and stay as she won’t be able to afford to feed her and have her at home if niece doesn’t give her the loan money. My niece is absolutely beside herself.

Her uncle told her we would help her if she really wanted to live in. We didn’t say how and we didn’t commit to a amount because we will not pay her mothers way but we were thinking we would do the whole year accommodations and then she can help her mother with her loan if that’s what will make her happy. She has obviously then told her mum that her uncle and I will help her live in so that she can still help her mum and come home.

Her mother has gone ballistic at her daughter for talking to us and at us for sticking our noses in. She has again told niece she has 2 choices. Stay with her or go but she can’t have it both ways. I honestly don’t believe it’s about benefits, house etc it’s about losing control of niece and not knowing what she is doing. Niece is now saying she can’t go to uni at all.

My niece is torn between her dream and her mother. AIBU to push her to her dream by giving her the means to live away and help her mum with her loan or should we just stay out of it and let niece make her own choice. I don’t want to be held accountable for breaking her and her mum up but I also know if we don’t offer the money for accommodation then she will stay at home with her mum and miss out on uni life.

OP posts:

raspberryk · 23/08/2019 20:52

However her mother will lose benefit whether her daughter goes away or not, because of her age! I wouldn't support her paying mother the loan either I would help her out but her mother is being pure selfish. Help her and tell her to keep the loan for herself.

Smelborp · 23/08/2019 20:54

YANBU to want to help her, but I wonder if this is the right way. It sounds like her mother would force her into debt supporting her.

I would ask your DN about the future generally. Is she planning on still living with her mother in 5 years time? 10?

At some point, her mother will need to address the loss of benefits as your DN needs to spread her wings and leave. Feeling like she needs to financially support her parent won’t help her break that link.

I wonder if some counselling would help - could you offer to get her a life coach (a good one - vet then carefully!) or a counsellor who would help to support her in planning her future?

Has she applied yet or is that still a year away? She needs to apply to keep her options open.

Freddiefox · 23/08/2019 20:57

I think it will be a long hard slog for niece to get through the whole of uni if she’s trying to keep her mum happy.

She needs to make the choice herself so she’s able to see it through. Once she’s made the choice then I think you can talk about how you can help her.
I think it’s abkit control and power and once you solve one problem the goal post will be moved

WhereYouLeftIt · 23/08/2019 20:58

Fuck it, I'd be offering my niece my spare room to move into by this point!

Original poster

Holoqueen · 23/08/2019 21:01

Thankyou. Yes, she will lose them either way which is why she says niece has to stay. We did broach the 5 years etc but very softly as it’s a very intense relationship and you have tread carefully in what you say. Niece did see a councillor for a long time but her mother put a stop to that when niece started to question things at home. She can apply when she goes back in September and we hopefully can get her to do that still and then tackle the rest later. It’s hard because where we have tried to help before we have them become the bad guys but we both just want her to be happy and find her independence.

OP posts:

Original poster

Holoqueen · 23/08/2019 21:05

@WhereYouLeftIt we said that to but she is so worried her mum will lose everything and she will be blamed if she doesn’t help. I guess it is easy for us to say we will help etc but she has to live with the guilt her mother has installed. I know what we should do and probably will do but I just don’t want her to live with the consequences and get the blame for living her life. We will be blamed to but I can live with that. I just want her to be happy and live her best life.

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Soubriquet · 23/08/2019 21:05

I would be helping niece to run as far as she bloody can and to make sure she doesn’t give her mother a penny

Walnutwhipster · 23/08/2019 21:07

I'd be offering my niece a place to stay during her down time from uni. I'd also tell her to in no way give up any of her loan to her mother. You have done nothing wrong. Her mother is vile to expect her to help fund her home from her loan.

Zebraaa · 23/08/2019 21:10

I feel so sorry for your poor niece. Her selfish mum will ruin her entire life at this rate. Please help her any way you can. (And thank god she has you and your husband!)

Pippinsqueak · 23/08/2019 21:17

I would push for going to uni, her mum will always be there. She ll regret it if she doesn't go.

Don't let her give her mum the loan either, she's going to need it for student life.

I know she ll want to please her mum but she has to realise if her mum truly wanted what's best for her then she would let her daughter follow her dream instead of holding her back.

Get stuck in there I say, sounds like you have her best interest at heart

RandomMess · 23/08/2019 21:22

Tell niece she can live with you in the holidays if her Mum can't accommodate her. Your DN needs to escale!

RandomMess · 23/08/2019 21:23

Escape even

Ellisandra · 23/08/2019 21:23

Your money would be better spent on more counselling for her, than uni accommodation. If she really looks like she’s not going to apply at all, I’d talk to her about applying for a deferred place.

Morgan12 · 23/08/2019 21:27

And why can't her mother go to work for money?

How people can be so selfish towards their own children never ceases to amaze me.

She is so lucky she has you and her uncle.

DrVonPatak · 23/08/2019 21:27

Your DN NEEDS to go, for her own wellbeing. I CANNOT stress this enough. Offer her your spare room for the holidays and any top ups on the loan, but make sure she keeps the loan to herself. Have her access uni counselling the minute she steps through the door.

At no point should you feel guilty about breaking them up, rather congratulate yourself on saving your DN.

As for your SIL, words fail me. Let her clean up her own mess for once. Greedy CF.

Original poster

Holoqueen · 23/08/2019 21:39

Thankyou all. Some great advice here. Had not thought of deferred year. I thought I would get a lot of grief for sticking my nose into mother and daughter situations but it’s more than that. It’s her whole future. I think counselling is something we need to try and broach. It did help her assert herself more when she was going before.

I just want her to be happy and it seems like every time we think we can do that her mother puts the pressure on and she is left in a impossible situation. I think your are all right in that getting her out of the situation rather than focusing on the uni side of it is of more importance. I think Dh is going to speak to his parents tomorrow to see if they can help but they have always pandered to his sister and often support her behaviour. She is always a victim and everything is always down to others behaviour and choices rather than hers.

OP posts:

SmartPlay · 23/08/2019 21:41

You are not being unreasonable to want to help you niece. That's awesome.

However, I think you shouldn't help your niece by giving her money so that she can give her money to her mother, you should rather help her to get out of her mother's control and guilt trip.
If you want to support your niece financially, I think it should be to avoid her having to take a student loan and go into dept. Otherwise you are only blowing the money into her mothers arse. An arse she should have moved off her couch to get a job more than a decade ago.

MoominKitty · 23/08/2019 21:47

I never got my chance of uni as had to get a full time job to help my mum keep the house as she was on benefits. I did this for ten years, got in debt and had a mental break down. I finally thought fuck it and moved and now feel guilty every day for leaving her in a shit situation that wasn't my making, but 3 years on I'm almost debt free and expecting. But I deeply regret I ruined my earning potential by not going to uni as I'm stuck in min wage jobs now. Please please please help your niece further her education, her mother is not responsibility and the guilt trip she's pulling on her daughter needs to stop now.

Nautiloid · 23/08/2019 21:47

She needs to escape. I doubt any good would come from talking to her mother and explaining she's going to push her daughter away forever if she keeps on like this.
Trouble is, she could stay at home every minute of her degree and what happens afterwards? Is she going to work to support mum for the rest of her life? Mum needs to make other plans.

MaverlousMo · 23/08/2019 21:48

Tell your DN to go to uni and stay accommodation provided, the experience and distance will be good for her.

If she doesn’t go she’ll only feel resentment towards her Mother in future.

Any student loans should really be used to support herself whilst studying.

RhubarbFizz · 23/08/2019 21:51

Could you find out what benefits your SIL is claiming ( how does she finance herself, daughter and house if no work.) and explain to your niece that regardless of whether she lives out at Uni or not, due to her age her Mum will lose certain benefits ( and any monies from her dad...?).
And due to her going to Uni her Mum will still claim benefits XYZ.

If she understand the financial truth it may help her realise that whatever she does will not affect her mother’s finance.

It sounds like if she stays at home and does not go to Uni, she will have to get a job and give that money to her Mum too.. to cover lost be edits and costs.

I can see it probably is not about money but fear of losing her and control. But if th argument is about money she needs to understand the truth.

raspberryk · 23/08/2019 22:06

Don't listen to the student debt haters either, "don't let her get into debt" is rubbish, think of it as an graduate tax but it's only a very small amount once earnings are over 25k.

Original poster

Holoqueen · 23/08/2019 22:07

@MoominKitty I’m so sorry you were in that situation. Congratulations on bump. Those are my fears for niece. Except I fear she will never get out because the guilt and fear of loosing her mum is so overwhelming and a very real possibility for her. We always tell her she has us and we will never turn away from her but we are not her parents and I get that.
The problem is we know full well if we pay for the accommodation then she will still get the loan and give it to her mum as to her that is the solution to her problem. Although it’s really not. We all know that. You have all made me even more determined to keep fighting for her. Dh and I need to work out the best way forward and we will be making it clear she has a home here. I will get her to live in come hell or high water. She was never so happy as the day she told us she wanted to live at uni. I’ve never seen her so happy. She loves it there and it will be the making of her. It won’t be easy as her social skills need a lot of work but it will change her life.

Her mother only worked part time before falling pregnant. She then became a single mum during pregnancy. Couldn’t afford childcare in the early years. She is constantly at the doctors and A&E for health concerns and has been since DN was born. She suffers from mental health issues although has never been officially diagnosed with anything. There was a time when DN was constantly being taken to the doctors and A&E but that stopped about 5 years ago. She does have a lot of issues and there are times I feel for her but a lot of her situation is her own making and she never takes responsibility for anything. Thankyou all so much

OP posts:

ThatssomebadhatHarry · 23/08/2019 22:13

You think she should give the loan to her mother. Her loan that she will be paying for for the rest of her adult life so her mum can piss it away.
My student loan effected my recent mortgage amount and I was on the old system so a lot less than kids borrow today, she needs someone to explain this to her.

MoominKitty · 23/08/2019 22:17

It's a horrible situation and not an easy one to watch a loved one be in. I'd have killed for family like you when I was younger, but I'm now looking at open uni in the future and am on LC with DM for my mental health. Sadly I think your niece will most likely financially be helping her mum for a long time but uni may help her see another life path so I'll cross everything she takes the place. I obviously don't know the mums situation but she sounds like hard work and manipulative and I fear her future life will be lonely and she's needs some harsh truths from her brother personally if possible. You both sound lovely and I think all you can do is be there and be the voice of gentle reason for your niece at the moment.

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