Michaela School and behaviour - AIBU

[herculepoirot2]

AIBU to think that you might read this behaviour policy and think it is authoritarian and unnecessary, but to also think that, with results four times better than the national average, these people might have a point about the benefits to young people of being expected to work hard and behave well?

mcsbrent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Behaviour-Policy-11.02.19.pdf

There are plenty of schools that do an impressive job getting their pupils from a lower than average starting point to in line with/above national average.

I really don’t think there’s a view that it’s all ‘nature’ as far as gcse results go - IQ will still predict better results overall but I think any teacher who doesn’t endorse the idea that ‘nurture’ is as important is in the wrong job

It’s also interesting how there’s a perception on this thread that being left wing = permissive teaching style. As I mentioned the telegraph are loving this story and this is very much their take - but realistically I’m not sure there’s a reason for it. I’m left wing and definitely not permissive. I don’t see what politics would really have to do with how you actually teach in a classroom.
I don’t understand the whole KB speech - working in state schools made me a conservative. Maybe it’s just cos she older than me and associates her time being frustrated with new labour education policies, idk.
What the left wing side of me finds difficult to stomach is that fact that the school can be seen to be selective - in which case I have a problem with the model.

Even when those conditions don’t suit all the other children?
There's a difference between "doesn't suit" and "interferes with the efficient education of". I presume you've heard of "reasonable adjustments"?
So if a child can't follow the exact regime but, with help, can behave well enough that they aren't disrupting their own or anyone else's education, they might well benefit from the school.
But I doubt their parents would risk it.

In other areas of London, children of first generation immigrants often do better at school than more established families. Sounds like this is also the group choosing this school.

I’m left wing and I think permissive teaching styles let a lot of children down massively.

There are plenty of schools that do an impressive job getting their pupils from a lower than average starting point to in line with/above national average

Indeed and they do it without an absolutist, authoritarian regime, hidden selection and a massive self publicist as a head.

I presume you've heard of "reasonable adjustments"?
So if a child can't follow the exact regime but, with help, can behave well enough that they aren't disrupting their own or anyone else's education, they might well benefit from the school.
But I doubt their parents would risk it.

Well, of course I have heard of reasonable adjustments. And yes, of course if a child can get on well in an environment that suits the majority of other children this well, without interfering with their efficient education, I 100% support that.

But I think you may be drawing an attractive curtain over what what people call “reasonable” actually means sometimes. I have seen posters on here insist that a child with SEN cannot be disciplined for disruption, “because it is a direct result of their disability,” for example. And nor can they help the disruption, again, because it is due to their disability. So if that is true, what “adjustments” are going to protect the other children from that disruption?

I am not suggesting in any way that those children don’t or shouldn’t have rights. But the other children have rights too. How do we balance them?

I'm still wondering how my student with Tourette's would get on at Michaela.
Perfectly well behaved, works, but would obviously cause some disruption and could not be silent in corridors etc.

Perfectly well behaved, works, but would obviously cause some disruption and could not be silent in corridors etc.

And so this is what I mean. If this student can’t be silent in an environment where that silence is so clearly working well for the other children, what is the answer?

I can think of a few.

A) Accept that his needs come first and withdraw the rule about silence
B) Put the rule in place but allow an exemption for him
C) Give him suitable alternatives for schooling

It’s hard, but I think the point about conflicting rights has to be acknowledged to be valid.

However unfashionable the idea may be, children need discipline and clear rules. I went to three secondary schools - the first one was properly run with rules, discipline and structure. Behaviour was good and we all got along. Sadly I moved and the two subsequent schools were chaotic bear pits and bullying and disruption was rife. My education was ruined after that.

Or a child who can behave when not subject to a rigid regime, but who gets agitated and anxious when worried about breaking rules.

Or a child who can behave when not subject to a rigid regime, but who gets agitated and anxious when worried about breaking rules.

Totally.

Thete us a middle ground between bearpit and so called zero tolerance, though.

I visited a silent corridor school and it was not oppressive. As a teacher I found it relaxing and serene. But the lessons themselves were extraordinarily didactic and passive. It wasn't Michaela but it did use the methods. I couldn't work there.

Piggywaspushed

I agree. I wouldn’t want to use all of their methods - I am too “free-spirited” myself and am no hypocrite!

I was told that their trainee teachers can't cope in other schools either which is a bit if a concern!

But I was sold on the corridors. It was bliss.

*I was told that their trainee teachers can't cope in other schools either which is a bit if a concern!

But I was sold on the corridors. It was bliss.*

Which is worrying, isn’t it? What’s wrong with normal corridors? Well...

But the teacher I knew who worked there was a legend.

In my school, terrible design, horrendous acoustics, squeaky floors, overcrowding, lack of SLT presence or even support ( see no evil!)...to name just a few factors...

In my last one, it was the disrespect for staff and between students that caused the issues. Lateness, vandalism, unwanted contact, bullying, phones, truancy, food all over the floors - you name it.

Sending SLT was a panacea with a big hole in it: the kids had lost respect for them as well.

Which is worrying, isn’t it? What’s wrong with normal corridors? Well

There is a middle ground between a free for all corridor and walking in silence.

We had to walk sensibly around school, no shoving, pushing or raised voices. But we could still talk to our friends.

We had to walk sensibly around school, no shoving, pushing or raised voices. But we could still talk to our friends.

And I would argue that should

Sorry: should work. But it very often doesn’t, which is why schools are considering more draconian methods.

My head teacher went to visit the school.

He was particularly impressed with the ' no marking ' idea. Well a different approach to marking.

Sadly he left. We still have to spend three hours marking a set of books because of you know Ofsted.

If that school mentioned up thread did get 70 percent grades 7 plus it would be interesting to know their p8 scores. As interesting as these old school percentages are. We all know its the p8 that counts these days.

But it very often doesn’t, which is why schools are considering more draconian methods

Well - if we mucked around, we would get corporal punishment. And then kicked out and sent to the crap school.

Corporal punishment and fear of it was used to keep us in line. As well as knowing we were at a good school and not wanting to lose out. In this case, they have other ways of keeping people in line.

I suppose it's a debate about how to motivate pupils to behave. We had the motivation of not wanting to be caned or expelled. This school has the motivation of detention and expulsion.

It makes a change from positive motivation strategies.

*I suppose it's a debate about how to motivate pupils to behave. We had the motivation of not wanting to be caned or expelled. This school has the motivation of detention and expulsion.

It makes a change from positive motivation strategies.*

My old school was awash with rewards and praise. None of it worked.

As a parent I was shocked at a lot of the behaviour allowed in my DDs high school, I had to frequently go to meetings during school hours due to her both missing school because of a serious illness and also eventually school refusal. The one thing they were strict on was uniform, god forbid you never wore a tie or like my DD wore bright coloured socks once as a protest. On the other hand I know a pupil who assaulted another child was let off with a warning, no suspension at all.

I think it depends on what support systems are available for the kids that struggle. DDs school has an excellent pupil support system in place. What happens to the 12 year old who is persistently late due to a bad home life? Will they be treated compassionately or just punished. It says parental non compliance is a cause for suspension or exclusion, I understand parents kicking off needs a tough line but if it is something like a homework jotter not being signed then it seems wrong to punish the child.