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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to be angry at being turned down

41 replies

HotChocolateLover · 22/08/2019 08:07

To be clear this AIBU is ONLY regarding the reason for being turned down. My work is offering a fully funded degree or masters which would progress my career. I was told I couldn’t do it because of my sick record this year due to three short periods of sick. My condition is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. I feel they have acted unlawfully to cite this. AIBU to be upset?

OP posts:
AmIThough · 22/08/2019 08:11

I don't think YANBU if you feel like they're discriminating against you and think you should take this up with HR.
However, are you sure you could commit to the full course? If not, they may have a point.

AmIThough · 22/08/2019 08:11

I mean I don't think YABU Grin

Original poster
HotChocolateLover · 22/08/2019 08:14

The course is over 4 years so very doable compared to how intense a usual Masters is. I would definitely commit and managed to complete a degree no problem.

OP posts:
IAskTooManyQuestions · 22/08/2019 08:16

Can you demonstrate that it is worth the company investing in you? If you think you have grounds to challenge, then do so.

FazakerlyJackie · 22/08/2019 08:23

YANBU
and get some advice re potentially unlawful discrimination.

Magenta82 · 22/08/2019 08:39

YANBU
Probably the person who made the decision didn't even check to see if you had a disability and just based it on the info in front of them, if you go back and point out the protected characteristic then they will likely re-assess the request. If they don't you can take things further.

Original poster
HotChocolateLover · 22/08/2019 09:00

@magenta82 The person who made the decision was my line manager and her line manager so they were definitely aware. That’s what makes it all the more insulting. @IAskTooManyQuestions The company has a high level of staff turnover as they employ a lot of temps (i’m permanent) It’s public sector though so i’m Not sure Worried about my job 😂 Basically i’d Be giving them the security that’d stay for many years to come but basically they’re not interested.

OP posts:
Original poster
HotChocolateLover · 22/08/2019 09:09

Just considering whether I have the nerve to go to the regional director and say (names changed)

‘Sue, Paula and Rachel turned me down for the Masters on the grounds of my health. My health is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act. What are you going to do about that’

Soooo tempted but it would make things unbelievably awkward at work and I doubt that the regional director would do anything anyway 🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
AmIThough · 22/08/2019 09:12

I'd compose an email to the decision makers. Tell them you feel you may have been denied the opportunity unfairly and explain your reasoning.

If they don't offer to reassess - forward the email they respond with to HR/regional director as relevant and ask if they can advise on company policy with regard to discrimination.

Cornettoninja · 22/08/2019 09:17

Have you said this to your bosses? (formally either in writing or official meeting that’s been minuted)

I think you need to and outline exactly what steps you intend to take next if you’re unhappy with their response. Have you looked at the official policy for raising complaints and follow it to the letter because you will likely have to go through a chain of management appropriately.

Calic0 · 22/08/2019 09:21

It seems odd - I’m public sector and manage a couple of people with conditions covered by the Equality Act and there is very strict guidance as to how to handle things. I’m surprised that anyone would be so crass as to turn someone down for the reason you’ve stated. How did they phrase it when they rejected your application? Was it because you’d met Attendance Management trigger points? Because you can still do that even if your condition is covered, albeit the trigger points are likely to be adjusted.

BowiesJumper · 22/08/2019 09:27

I would definitely contest the decision, highlighting that they cannot discriminate against you based on your condition. Go firstly to your immediate line managers who made the decision though, and if that doesn't work, you can go higher.

OoohRhubarbLetsGo · 22/08/2019 09:30

Are you in a union? They will have specialists to advise on equality issues.

OMGshefoundmeout · 22/08/2019 09:30

Why go to the regional director? As you say it would make things awkward and it might be avoidable. Why not contact the two individuals directly (by email so there is a paper trail) saying how unfair the decision seems, remind them that your condition is a protected characteristic and ask them to reconsider? If that fails then let them know (again by email) that you think this might be discriminatory and are considering taking it further. Then and only then it might be time to escalate.

Greyponcho · 22/08/2019 09:31

I suppose one question then is are they able to make reasonable adjustments by allowing you to do the qualification on a less-than-full-time basis, say do fewer modules per year?
They shouldn’t be discounting you, but looking for ways to make it work for you

WorraLiberty · 22/08/2019 09:31

Hopefully you're in a union and will approach them about this?

YANBU to be upset but YABU if you're not going to do anything about it.

Thecabbageassasin · 22/08/2019 09:38

If you’re in public sector then why not just take it to union, they’ll probably advise you to speak with them first, but I was under impression that you can’t count disability and certain other sickness e.g. pregnancy related conditions. As part of your sickness record.

VeniVidiVoxi · 22/08/2019 09:43

You have to do so something though don't you or it's going to be a niggle for the next few years/rest of your time there. Is there any chance of asking for a debrief about the selection process and framing it as advice on how to improve your chances of being accepted should the opportunity come up again? I'd be surprised if there aren't quite stringent criteria for selection otherwise it can very much seem like a manager is distributing largesse to the golden team members and would open a whole can of worms. You have nothing to lose for asking how to get the golden ticket next time, and if it turns out they haven't followed their own process you could have an opportunity right away.

bridgetreilly · 22/08/2019 09:44

Was it because you’d met Attendance Management trigger points? Because you can still do that even if your condition is covered, albeit the trigger points are likely to be adjusted.

This. Having a protected condition doesn't mean that there's no other criteria.

BlackandGold · 22/08/2019 09:56

A Masters over four years? That sounds unusual; whereabouts is it please?

Skinnydogfatcat1 · 22/08/2019 10:10

The first thing I would do is go back to your line manager and say in a very nice way what you have said up thread.
Ask them to reconsider, say you feel you need to take this further as you feel so strongly that this is not fair (and legal).
Try the softly, softly, give them a chance to put right.
If they say no, say you will be taking it further, it is nothing personal about them but you feel strongly about this.
Good luck

GCAcademic · 22/08/2019 10:14

A Masters over four years? That sounds unusual; whereabouts is it please?

There are a number of two year Masters courses out there. If you were to take them part-time, that would be four years.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 22/08/2019 10:14

They could argue that it is concerns for your health that have made them reluctant to offer you this opportunity - that they fear the stress could exacerbate your condition.

Plus - having a condition which is a "protected characteristic" doesn't mean that they have to risk an investment in your education which you might not be able to complete. Degrees are expensive!

And having completed a Masters myself I can promise you that it is a LOT of work - much more so than a Batchelors. It's not just more of the same - it is a more intensive level of education. You have to be highly self-motivated - it's harder than you might think.

VivaLeBeaver · 22/08/2019 10:15

Masters over 4 years isn't unusual at all. I did a flexible Masters and just had to get all my credits within a 5 year period. Did it over 3 different universities.

VivaLeBeaver · 22/08/2019 10:16

And I don't think YABU to be angry. I would send both managers an email pointing out you have a protected characteristic and also take union/acas advice.