To think that a lot of us will be in trouble when we retire...

[Fleetheart]

This generation seems very unlike the previous ones in that we take out loans for everything, buy holidays on credit, kitchens on credit, new clothes etc etc. And pension schemes are getting less and less generous. And most of us don’t understand them anyway. I’ve always earned well, but have split up from partner, so still have s lot on my mortgage, no savings, and really not very much in my random pension schemes most of which are money purchase schemes and won’t pay a lot. And I know many people of my age (mid 50s) who have no pension at all. And meanwhile the govt is being less and less generous. What will become of us all?

I am in my early 50s just like the OP but i have retired. It takes a lot of planning, saving, going without and working your backside off. I didnt have a straight forward life , i worked in childcare and i took out a private pension at 18 and was part of the workplace scheme too, i divorced at 40 and even with the house sale i didnt have a lot of cash but i set up my own business which took up the majority of my weekdays, at night and at weekend i worked in a pub.I saved every penny i could into my pension fund for 10 years. My pension is not massive but it gives me enough to have a happy life, i can afford a
break every month and lunch with friends a couple of times a month but that is all i need. The old saying "look after the pennys and the pounds will take care of themselves" is true. Start writing down EVERY penny you spend and you will soon realise how much is wasted every week on nothing.Pensions are boring but early retirement is not

@pastaparadise, get some advice before setting up a private pension. I’d put money on you being better off using the money to buy extra years in the NHS scheme.

Alsohuman
Thats what I did -topped up with AVC (Additional Voluntary Contributions )
Im 51 and shortly retiring on health grounds (injury)
As regards the women who work PT/lower paid roles,I have experienced this with a number of my colleagues.
Most just went with what worked for them at the time and I absolutely agree with both parents shouldering the burden of CC.
In the NHS women approaching retirement as split into 2 groups, those with full pensions ( either FT or AVC) and those facing a retirement age of 68 as they havent made enough contributions.
They made decisions based on their circumstances at the time -didnt count on divorce or death .

SciFiScream, I agree that childcare should be seen as a joint expense. It is really tough though...I know when our childcare bill equated almost to the penny with my take home pay, it was difficult to see it like that. There was a part of me that thought ‘blimey I would literally have as much money in my pocket if I’d been home all day.’ Of course I’m very glad I did remain in work and keep my pension payments going.

A lot of families want to cut back to some extent on work hours when they have children which is quite understandable - though of course it still defaults to the woman which is frustrating. I dropped to 3 days a week when we had kids, but this getting on for 30 years ago, maternity leave was only 3 months and there weren’t the options for paternity leave or shared leave like there are now. I like to think if I was having kids in 2019, we’d balance things slightly differently, maybe each dropping a day at work while the babies were small.

I think it’s the longer term knock on that seems to happen which is really worrying... when you see women who are out of the workplace so long that they never regain their position. Or women who go part time and never return to full time. These are the women who are going to be hit hard. Any time out of the workplace or on reduced hours will hit the pension, which is why it’s important to minimise that time.

A pp commented that they thought most women who are ‘underemployed’ (doing jobs below their potential and earning power) have thought it all through carefully and planned for their future. I disagree. IME they really haven’t, it’s only when they reach their fifties and retirement and pensions begin to loom larger in their thinking, that they realise they don’t have the finances in place to live to a reasonable level of comfort. Just in my immediate circle I can think of several teaching colleagues my age who have always worked part time since having children who have been genuinely shocked by how much their pensions are reduced - and this is in a profession where the pension is about as good as it gets. It’s not about lack of intelligence - these are bright women- more a lack of awareness and long term thinking. It’s good that pensions are talked about more now (this thread being an example) and of course govt intervention with auto enrolment. IMO it should have happened earlier because pensions were a crisis waiting to happen, but better late than never.

As many pp have commented, it’s pretty basic maths that the more you pay in, the more you get out. I’ve definitely found that as well as the years before having children, the mid 30s to mid 50s have definitely been the optimum period to stack up the full time work and pension payments. I don’t want to be working full time after 60. I also find that having worked full time for most of my career, the idea of doing part time work until 70 or even older doesn’t fill me with dread. My intention is certainly to keep working part time in some form as long as possible, there’s so much evidence to show it’s a positive thing.

So, does anyone know when you stop paying NI contributions? Is it on retirement?

Someone up thread mentioned this. I thought you just paid NI(but maybe at a reduced rate) until you dropped dead! Assumed they were even taken out of your pension.

NI contributions stop at state pension age.

Yes, you continue to pay them (even if as an individual you’re ‘fully paid up’) until you are state pensionable

A pp was talking about being self employed and the seeming disadvantage of not having an employer paying into your pension... but of course you’re paying way lower NI rates and can set lots of expenses against tax, so you can always stack what you’re saving in this way into a private pension

Celaneo thanks, and presumably, if you're SE, you can opt to stop paying NI once you've clocked up your 35 years contributions, if you wanted?

I'm not SE, but know someone who is.

My husband is 59 and works 15 hours per week. He pays a couple of quid a month in NI and no income tax, because his earnings are below the threshold. Meanwhile his pensions from previous, higher paying work continue to sit there and grow because with my f/t income we have enough for the lifestyle we currently enjoy.

I see that you are sticking with the ad hominem approach (look it up) since you’re losing the argument. Combined with an appeal for sympathy, like an X factor contestant trying to win the crowd over.

Wow. What a joy you are, @Iamthewombat “An appeal for sympathy?”, because I explained my parents’ health problems in more detail since it wasn’t clear from your post that you’d fully understood the situation?

Fuck off with your keyboard warrior shite and stop trying to pick holes in people’s posts by just being downright needlessly nasty. I’ve seen you do it to people on other threads. You seem fond of telling people to look things up in a dictionary , and I remember you recently claiming that you had “wiped the floor” with someone by presenting a list of arguments against someone’s else’s point. That doesn’t make what is essentially just an opinion of yours any more correct than someone else’s opinion. I’m happy to be corrected on hard cold facts, but presenting reasons for YOUR differing opinion as proof that you are the “winner” in the argument is ludicrous, and frankly, arrogant and small-minded.

Posters like Caelano have just proved that it is possible to try to persuade other people to their ideas or way of thinking, without a touch of arrogance or ridiculing someone’s thoughts in a very sarcastic style, and definitely without jumping in without any empathy whatsoever when someone explains that their parents have extremely worrying health issues. People take reasonable posters like Caelano far more seriously than some abrasive keyboard warrior who just seems to want to turn everything into an argument or as if this was a case at the High Court, just so they can sit back and announce to everyone in a smug way that they have “won”. So maybe if your aim really is to influence more people to think the way you do you should consider taking note of their posting style, as yours is shocking, and people will eventually stop taking your posts seriously. It’s a shame as underneath the arrogance and nastiness you may actually have something valid to say sometimes.

By the way, does anyone on this thread happen to have access to a copy of today’s Daily Express? On the front cover one of the headlines is “Pension crisis: Are you one of the 9m facing poverty?”

Bit of a coincidence, I thought.

Aha! It all becomes clear. You were one of the posters who took umbrage on the ‘is it tacky to ask for money as a wedding gift’ thread, weeks ago, when I and other posters expressed the view that yes, we did find it quite tacky actually.

I’m not sure that MN is the right place for you if you’re going to cherish grudges against people you have never met and pursue anybody who disagrees with you across multiple threads.

Why the urge to spray bile at random strangers on the internet? Actually, I can guess the reason. I’ve articulated it before on here. Sensible people can disagree with another poster’s opinion and move on. However, people with limited confidence in their own intellect become mortally offended when somebody else, as they see it, criticises their life choices. They can’t help but personalise it.

They see it as a personal attack, which must be avenged. Worse, when the person being attacked challenges the logic of the attacker’s argument, the attacker goes down the ad hominem argument road: attacking the individual because they can’t win the logical argument. It’s a well-documented phenomenon on the internet.

In your case, you unilaterally decided that I, personally, was keeping the salaries of teaching assistants and nursery nurses at a low level in order to put more into my pension. Based on zero evidence, and very strange logic (I don’t hold weekly meetings with the lords of microeconomics and supply and demand to decide the salaries of certain professions; if only!) but born of a desire to lash out, in whatever way, at somebody you can’t win an argument against.

Can’t you see the irony?

Also, just FYI, you didn’t personally call out Celaeno, did you? But you did call me out with a number of baseless accusations. Don’t be surprised when people respond to challenges of that nature, and try not to be upset when they argue more effectively than you.

It’s obviously not become that clear, then, Wombat, as I don’t think I even posted on that thread, I simply read it and noted that as ever there is a wide range of opinion on what is the “done thing.” But yes, you carry on with your silly assumptions like some shit Inspector Morse...

people with limited confidence in their own intellect become mortally offended when somebody else, as they see it, criticises their life choices. They can’t help but personalise it.

They see it as a personal attack, which must be avenged. Worse, when the person being attacked challenges the logic of the attacker’s argument, the attacker goes down the ad hominem argument road: attacking the individual because they can’t win the logical argument. It’s a well-documented phenomenon on the internet.

Aah, now I see what I have been doing wrong! Thanks for enlightening me. I promise I will stop “avenging.” Jesus wept.

You’re funny. I’ll stop posting now on this thread you are determined to show me I’m wrong in everything I post and frankly I can’t be bothered going round in circles and wasting my time. Please don’t stop with the posting style, I find it quite amusing. But bear in mind that other people who have parents in a similar health situation to mine may just take your words to heart. If I were you, I would avoid telling people in real life who tell you about their parents’ terminal illnesses that they’re just like an X factor contestant trying to garner sympathy.

Well this is turning into a right old bun fight

The bun fight is over: she’s flounced. Perhaps she will find me on another thread, taking issue with my pronunciation of ciabatta.

Crikey, all kicked off a bit! Now, what were we talking about

Play nicely, children

For those starting pensions for their children, are you saving into an actual pension scheme in their name or some other kind of savings? So far our children’s savings are in kids accounts but as I’m about to earn more / return to full time and so we will have more day to day cash available I’m interested in investing savings in other things for the long haul. I hadn’t thought about an actual pension scheme as an option for the under 5s!

I’m definitely worried about the hit to my pension and all other work related progression compared to my full time husband but I also feel like I have time to make it up. I’m glad I’ve continued working and gaining qualifications while my children were little. I’ve definitely lost out in some pay although to be fair not loads as I wasn’t in a high paid career before and I’ve had pay rises/new jobs to keep moving up, but I’ve used the time on Mat leaves to retrain and now want to try to make up for it all. My husband has been promoted and had a big pay rise over that period but he has also been working nights which I understand takes years off your life so it’s not a straightforward ‘I’m losing out’ situation. I’m not sure I could have paid more into a pension when younger - my first job paid £7k! We saved up hard to buy a house, so up until now I’ve been paying the minimum in.

@Anothername19. I read your post as “full time husband” and was wondering if some people only have husbands part time

I think a massive problem for women is that in many households the mans career comes first. So women give up work / go part time and work around the kids while mr goes up the career ladder.

But I have noticed a few changes with people in their 30s (including my own DH) where the man works reduced hours (both DH and I work 4 days each)

This means both of us have the same potential earning power

Dylaninthemovies1 I think that’s the way ahead, and it makes loads of sense given that most people tend to partner someone with similar level of abilities and earning potential at the outset. Lots of couples meet at uni or in the workplace.

In some ways I’m a bit envious of women having babies now, because the legislation is there to make it easier to share things from the get go, with shared leave and also the option to take chunks of parental leave while the children are young.

Having said that, given that vastly inferior maternity rights when I had my babies, and the non existent paternity leave, I don’t think dh and I managed too badly. We carved things up pretty equally and were determined that we’d never sacrifice either career completely. It actually just feels a very natural and normal approach to me anyway, to balance earning and caring. There’s pros and cons to both, so why not share them. Of course the other big advantage is that in the event of a curve ball (sickness, redundancy) you haven’t put all your eggs in one basket with regard to earning and pension contributions.

Dh and are fortunate we haven’t had to face those scenarios but I’m sure it’s taken some of the pressure off knowing that we’ve always kept our earning capacities.

This is going a bit off topic but with work it's hard to find healthy mediums. The idea of both parents equally shouldering the responsibility for childcare sounds nice and progressive but how many decently paid flexible part time jobs are there?

For most couples it does make more sense for one to be the fall guy who messes work about when their child is ill rather than both parents to be pissing off their bosses and equally sabotaging their careers.

I do agree though that it shouldnt always be the man whose job takes priority.

@SnuggyBuggy how much pissing around does there need to be? We both work full time and it's only fair to our bosses that we share the "burden" equally, but how much of a burden is it? Flexible working is only granted when it is viable to the business and the sickness stage soon passes, my kids had 100% attendance at school last year. So I'm really not sure how much of a burden DH and I are to our employers just because we're parents tbh! It certainly has not sabotaged our careers, but we've remained full time.