To think friend is raising a future dangerous dog?

[CheeseOnRoast]

My friend has a Doberman puppy. No issue with the breed as i quite like them but let’s be honest, they can be pretty dangerous, as can all dogs I suppose.

Anyway the puppy is 12 weeks old and whenever I go to her house it immediately starts growling as I walk in - a low pitched, aggressive growl - sometimes accompanied by barking. Friend insists she’s just protecting the house but 12 week old puppies do not protect property IMO. Then as soon as I sit down, it bites. Friend tells me to ignore it etc but it doesn’t give up, if it can’t get my hand it bites my leg. It does this with everyone. I was there this morning and was watching as this pint sized puppy paraded around the garden growling and barking at nothing.
She’s taking it to training classes but personally I’m concerned she’s got a dog that is naturally aggressive. She downplays everything as “it’s only a baby” and “all puppies bite” etc

I’m seriously considering telling her that I don’t be visiting once the dog gets much bigger. She will be offended and upset. Am I over reacting here?

Protecting the house is fine, but as soon as the owner has made it clear that the person coming in is a friend, that behaviour should stop. But 12 weeks is very young for it to be labelled ‘naturally agressive’. Going to puppy training is surely a sign that your friend is being responsible and willing to learn more about dog behaviour. I would see how it goes before jumping the gun and deciding not to visit anymore.

I’m another poster wondering if you’ve got mouthing mixed up with biting. At this age I’d also presume that growling was a scared or anxious (or playful) behaviour rather than mature protective or aggressive.

I wouldn't accept a friend's dog biting me when visiting them.

It's 12 weeks old - it's not biting, it's mouthing. A totally normal behaviour for a young dog.

Yes, all puppies nip but when you say “ach!” Or “No!” they should stop. Don’t let it jump up at you, ignore it and put a flat hand out to stop it.

yes all young puppies mouth but there's a difference between biting and mouthing. The growling suggests that it is more than just mouthing.

If this isn't corrected while the dog is still young, it will only get worse as it matures and hormones kick in.

If the dog starts biting, growling, or even barking at a visitor, then the dog should be removed and put into a different room or in the garden, out of vision of the person until it's calmed down. Reintroduce it when it's calm, and remove it again at the first sign of that behaviour.

Eventually it'll learn that if it's behaving like that it doesn't get to be where it wants to be. See if you (as the visitor) can feed it some treats once it's calm, the puppy needs socialising with as many people as possible and needs to learn that meeting new people is nice and not scary.

Your friend should be correcting the puppy when the puppy starts to misbehave, it sounds like she is just watching and brushing off the behaviour. Really unacceptable and especially in a dog that will grow so big

All dogs mouth as puppies, its how they learn bite inhibition.

Absolutely correct - but the OP's Friend tells me to ignore it - which is wrong & worryingly ignorant.
It is a vital part of the first training dogs should receive - that they are not to use their teeth - & handled correctly is simple, gentle, & effective.

OP, your friend is a real danger to her dog & whoever encounters the dog. Doing nothing about mouthing behaviour is 100% incorrect & shows how ill-fitted your friend is to owning a dog - let alone a Dobie.

Friend is also not demonstrating calm leadership to her pup, as the dog is taking on guarding responsibility. I don't know if friend will listen to you, but all you can do is brightly present gifts about early training & exactly how mouthing/nipping/growling should be handled. There are plenty of excellent books & videos available.

Going to puppy training is surely a sign that your friend is being responsible and willing to learn more about dog behaviour.

I'd like to think so too, but sadly I've seen too many people who have attended a course of training, absorbed very little of it, & feel once the course is complete that their work is done.

Training should be happening several times a day, every day, as a natural part of your routine with your dog. For the whole of your dog's life. The fact that OP's friend is unable to ask the pup to sit & stay is concerning & suggests that she is not understanding or implementing the training lessons.

If the "just ignore the mouthing/biting" advice comes from the training classes, they are very badly wrong. Ignoring it teaches the dog that is can invade your space & put its teeth on your flesh & the pup should be learning not do do this already at 12 weeks.

OP - if you visit again & the pup mouths you, remove your hand/leg/etc, while making sharp 'yipping' noises. Don't engage beyond that. Be prepared to keep doing this so the puppy learns that you are not offering play when you remove your skin from near it's mouth, & 'yip yip yip' every time the pup makes mouth contact with you. This may sound daft, but I promise it works! - just needs lots of repetition.
Once the dog realises that mouthing makes you squeak (pups do this to each other within their play/fight learning, it makes perfect sense to them) - & begins to approach you more carefully & respectfully, reward with attention. If the pup gets excited & mouths again - yip.
As soon as pup remembers not to mouth - reward.

If you are able to do this, with any luck, your friend may pick up on it & start doing it properly herself.

@adaline. Don't be silly. If it leaves teeth marks, it's a bite and the owner can be sued.
Trying to minimise what the dog is doing is doing a disservice to all the careful owners that control their dogs and stop them biting visitors to the home. I am a (large breed) dog owner and I've never let a puppy/adult dog bite a visitor.

Playbiting & mouthing is normal & will pass with training. The growling at people isn't. I'd ask her if the puppy trainer thinks growling is OK as to me it's either fear, guarding or lack of socialisation.

A family member has two Dobermen. I don’t go to their house anymore. All they do is growl. They are really territorial dogs and very protective of their property so they don’t always like people around their stuff.

I would tell someone that their dog scared me if it scared me. This should not be difficult.

I knew a guy a few years ago (police officer) who had a Doberman. It was the quietest, most placid dog, not particularly interested in people as long as they were invited in by his owner, but it had been trained by a police dog handler. I'd be wary around one that wasn't being trained properly tbh.

If it leaves teeth marks, it's a bite and the owner can be sued.

ALL puppies mouth and leave teeth marks - it's part of being a puppy.

Trying to minimise what the dog is doing is doing a disservice to all the careful owners that control their dogs and stop them biting visitors to the home. I am a (large breed) dog owner and I've never let a puppy/adult dog bite a visitor.

Hang on, where did I say that the puppy biting a visitor was acceptable? It's absolutely not okay, but putting normal puppy mouthing/nipping in the same category as an adult dog bite doesn't help anyone!