To wonder how the general public would actually react if the government took drastic climate change measures?

[tequilasunrises]

I’m talking about measures that would severely restrict people’s ability to live how they choose. For example, implanting a one/two child policy, heavy restrictions on animal products and car and air travel mileage.

From reading threads on here and talking to people in real life it is clear that many people agree something needs to be done to stop climate change but aren’t willing to make the bigger sacrifices.

So, who thinks there would be uproar and who thinks the public would be behind extreme measures?

I’d be very sad to have my travel opportunities limited but would be behind it for the greater good.

I would much rather by degradable fabrics that are an animal product ie real leather, wool etc which degrade and are natural and long lasting than buy plastic (polyester, viscose etc) clothing which is not long wearing and is essentially putting plastic into the environment.

Yet leather tanning is among the most polluting industires, globally.

It's so hard to work out what really is the greenest option, overall.

It's like the car debate. Would it really be greener to break my 18 year old petrol car and buy an electric vehicle, if you took into account the full impact of producing that new car and charging it over its lifetime? Mining is a massive polluter, so is steel production. Then there's all the energy consumed in the manufacturing process, and in producing the the new battery it will need after a few years, plus the impact of the electricity required to run.

I'm not convinced, to be honest. There's a guy where I live who drives around in an Austin 7. They stopped making them in 1939.

He may well be the greenest motorist in the area.

Everything else wouldnt bother me but I need my car. I work in rural district nursing so driving is essential, people aren’t just going to be miraculously well enough to get to surgeries to be seen and until an electric car is created that covers the miles I do I’ll have to stick to fuel

As a starter for ten I would like to see the Govt crack down on things that don't really add much value to life:

• Ban all promotional items with some exceptions (toys with happy meals, etc). Exceptions would be things like free sewing patterns

• Ban gift wrapping paper and associated crap (forces people to use re-usable gift bags or plain brown paper that can be recycled)

Then also:

• Require a social/environmental cost to be priced into products that covers the whole supply chain. This would then use market forces to reduce consumption. At the moment we have too much available too cheaply - the price doesn't reflect the damage it is doing to the planet

• The above would also lead to behavioural change at companies (for example more home working, less business flights) to keep costs and sale prices down

Rural poverty is a big problem - lots of towns have nothing because the money just isn't there. Where we are, we've just had to fight for funding to repair the park in town because everything there is broken. There's no indoor entertainment for children, no cinema, no pool - if you want any of those you need to either spend £££ on a train and then walk/catch the bus, or drive.

And a lot of rural areas have no mains gas, so are forced to use electricity, oil or LPG for heating. If they have a bus service, it will be expensive (£6.50 from a village near me to the nearest town, 5 miles away) and infrequent. Residents have a choice or driving miles to a supermarket or paying through the nose at a small local shop.

When I was doing frontline work, it was much harder to help people on benefits budget effectively if they lived rurally than if they lived in one of the towns.

I would welcome it.

I already don't eat meat and dairy

I've only flown once in 8 years.
I recycle, buy second hand and make do all the time. Mainly because I'm a single parent on a low income

A good start imo would be for all products to show their carbon footprint/emissions so that we as consumers can make a more informed decision on whether to buy something or not.

Wheresmymojo I agree with your post.

The UK could make huge steps by simply doing the things it already does better. So for instance, better infrastructure, with cheaper railways, dedicated cycle paths, footpaths, no planning permission for new build housing estates on the edge of town unless minimum 3 storeys and terraced and connected with footpaths and cycle paths.

Also: cracking down on littering and fly tipping. I live in the countryside and the grass verges are strewn with MacDonalds wrappers, donut boxes, vodka bottles, cans, etc.. The local tip is difficult to use and unhelpful to users.

Stop giving planning permission for out of town shopping centres and massive supermarkets. Instead create small, local supermarkets and encourage local shops with attractive rates packages. Make town centres cycle friendly and offer free buses in from certain points to the town centre, or build trams or light railways. Make sure these systems run until at least 4am.

Do you remember that guy who flew from north to Berlin (i think) and from there to London, because it was cheaper than train?
Ridiculous isn't it

Very true, Lakie. People on MN trot out 'You can cycle' but it's not a viable option and dangerous for many in rural areas with single carriageway, windy A-roads and poor/dark weather a lot of the year.

I'd move in a heartbeat, but I really cannot afford it.

There's also the issue of private renting and how expensive and insecure it is in the UK, with most people on ASTs and even with longer ones there's always a 2-month get out clause so the renter is, excepting the first few months, never more than 2 months from having to look for another place to live (plus the 'no kids, no pets, no UC' rules many private landlords have or have to have).

invest in innovation - that's the only way

ToTryThisJustOnce I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

The '11 years to save the planet' rhetoric stems from the IPCC estimate, which is that the likely time before we reach 1.5 degrees of warming was 12 to 38 years (from 2018, and assuming we carry on emitting carbon as we are now).

Also: cracking down on littering and fly tipping. I live in the countryside and the grass verges are strewn with MacDonalds wrappers, donut boxes, vodka bottles, cans, etc.. The local tip is difficult to use and unhelpful to users.

At the same time, our council (rural) now only uplifts rubbish once every 3 weeks (no reduction in council tax, though).

We do have a good local tip, but if you're a non-driver then it's not really feasible .

Isn't that what Brexit is about? Making us all poorer so we save the planet?

It won’t happen. People won’t go backwards. Yes they’ll give up meat and dairy but only because the shops are stuffed with veggie/ vegan imports. The most environmentally friendly thing you can eat is local seasonal produce. Good luck with that in the U.K.

Giving up flying is fine for normal holidays but their are masses of industries from film, to finance, to freight that use air travel every single day. You would literally be decimating the structure of wealthy commercial industries. If you think pulling out of the EU is hard work and bad for the economy it won’t be half as bad as telling industry to not spend money.

tensixtysix I don’t think the environment is a consideration for any Brexiters is it? Possibly the fishermen that are pissed off about overfishing in British waters but they were the ones who sold their quotas to other countries.

I think that's the crux of it, people will resist going backwards and accepting only holidays in the UK and crap food and not being able to visit people as much.

"Isn't that what Brexit is about? Making us all poorer so we save the planet?"

I can't work out if you're being funny, or idiotic!

Brexit is about the super rich being able to make a big ole bonfire of all the regulations that govern the conditions of your work and my work, so that they can sweat us. It's about the rich getting richer and the rest of us getting poorer. And the rich don't give a rat's ass about the planet when making their money. So no, it's the opposite.

Bring it on! I don't care if people (even myself) like it - I want there to be breathable air when my DD is 50 yo!

Meanwhile back in the real world I would settle for jet fuel being taxed properly and the actual cost of flying (including a big wack of 'fix the climate tax') being passed on to those deciding whether to do it or not!

re dfs sofa they say it will last 10 years they should be made to last 50 years, if you find a victorian chaise longue or something the padding and fabric might be worn but generally the frame is fine so why would a new sofa only last such a little time, ditto beds wardrobes etc furniture made from wood should last a 100 years no problem just needs to be properly fixed together not tiny bits of dowel and glue but mortice and tenon joints then no one needs to keep planting trees to replace the ones that are cut down to make new furniture to replace something considered off trend now
my grandmothers wardrobes Art Deco Walnut are considered old fashioned not Art Deco enough to be trendy you would struggle to get £20 for them but they have years or life left in them and are better made than any MDF wardrobe in argos etc that is 5-10 times the price and will not even last a quarter of the lifetime as too flimsy

new large housing developments (500+ houses) should be built with some infra structure a childcare unit for children from 0-5 and a primary school at least, and thought given to how it will connect to secondary schools, 3-4 shop units, a community centre that can be used for anything from Yoga classes to being a church on Sunday morning a mosque Friday lunch time a scouts hall on tuesday evening , a drop in cafe etc, an ATM, shop with post office, possibly a medical centre , it should connect with public transport, have a playing field for ball games, some trees and open bits for sitting in, a playground with things for pre school children and older kid, it should have some small rentable offices and workshops units for people running own businesses, they should note the environment and not build on flood plains, it should have some allotments and land should be set aside for a local cemetery, there should be parking for mobile banking, a fish van, or vegetable van or mobile hairdresser next to permanent shops these things should be in the centre so minimum distance for everyone, there should be homes for those that need carers, bungalows or flats with lifts for the elderly

if people want to restrict cars there needs to be a regular reliable affordable public transport network no use having a bus that gets to town at 9.25 when schools and work start at 9 or the bus leaving at 4.50 with no other bus until 7 so anyone leaving work at 5 either has to wait 2 hours or takes a car,

people would shop in a town centre if they could either park easily and cheaply or get a bus door to door but if the buses are every two hours and parking is £4 people just drive to out of town place at the time of their choosing and park free
it just requires joined up thinking with discussions in planning with education, health social services water board etc

At the moment governments answer to climate change seems to be taxing people. Congestion charges are a prime example. As far as I can see this is not actually reducing emissions but, once again, penalizing the poorest in. society.

If you drive a massive gas guzzler you will probably have no problem paying the charge and will carry on polluting. The same applies to flying. The recent Google summit is a prime example.

I think that part of the reason many of the public are unsupportive of measures proposed by government is that they feel that the attitude is "do as I say and not as I do".

There is also a growing belief that governments are incompetent (not entirely misplaced in my view) so are introducing more restrictions to try and "control" the masses.

Unfortunately I think it will take a radical rethink in the way governments interact with people to ensure that practical, workable means of reducing the effects of climate receive popular support. Sadly, as far as I can see, this is unlikely to happen.

"if people want to restrict cars there needs to be a regular reliable affordable public transport "

Agreed - and active travel needs to be absolutely prioritised over cars - it's a magic bullet in health and environmental terms.

Householdplant dfs do have a range of British made furniture. It is their Berkeley Magna collection. This is advertised as British made where as there other ranges stay very silent on the source of supply.
It is a bit of a con as they advertise that they have British made furniture which they do but the vast majority of their sofas are not.
Try going in store, finding a medium priced sofa and ask who manufactured it. 9 times out of 10 the sales person will look blankly back at you.
But to put it simply only their top expensive ranges are British made and quite frankly if you are looking for British made you can find it cheaper elsewhere.

Yet leather tanning is among the most polluting industires, globally.

This highlights exactly what I am saying - as well as your second point about it being hard to know what is the greenest option. I full agree and it is difficult. You see because for me the tanning process may be polluting but that leather will then go on to last for years and will eventually degrade. Most man made fibres won't last so long and therefore more need produced as well as being, essentially plastic, and therefore not degrading back into the ground.

it is a minefield and I suppose alot of it is just a decision we have to best make for ourselves because solid, complete, unchallenged answers are so so few. It isn't easy

I do find it intersting reading everyone's different opinions and things and what they try to do as their bit. Can't be doing with the arguments and "I am right and you are wrong" brigade as it serves no purpose.

Teacup my Nan had one kitchen all her married life. It lasted 60 years and was still in use when she died. Solid wood units that were sanded down and repainted over the years. Her cooker lasted 30 years before replacement and her top loading washing machine was still in use up to her death.
Her sofa was as cut down and recovered at least once but I remember sitting on it as a child and sitting on it the day of her funeral 40 plus years later.
Now we live in a society where we get bored with our stuff. People think a kitchen needs replacing after 10 years. Sofas are changed every time we redecorate. Charity shops are full of last years duvet covers, curtains and cushions. Going to ikea is the new hobby of the masses.

When I was doing frontline work, it was much harder to help people on benefits budget effectively if they lived rurally than if they lived in one of the towns.

Yep, this doesn't surprise me at all.

Where I live, the only supermarkets are a medium sized Tesco and a co-op. The Tesco doesn't sell everything you need (it sells the basics but not much beyond that), so to do a decent food shop you either need to order online, or drive 35-40 minutes to the nearest town.

If you don't drive, you can get the train, but it means walking to/from the train station at either end (not possible if you want to buy a large amount or are elderly or have any kind of disability) and it'll cost you £10pp. Of course, you could get the bus, except it only runs twice a week, and not at all at the weekends.

We're luckier than most in that we have an electronics shop, a bedding/carpet store and numerous DIY places, but for the majority of items you still need to travel. There's nowhere here to get school uniform, for example, you need to travel to the nearest town (same costs as above - so it could cost £30+ for a family that doesn't drive to get there before you even start buying anything).

It's very easy to say "tax cars! Get rid of cars! Make everyone pay for electric cars!" when you live in an urban bubble. Even if you live here and own an electric car, you need to live in a house with a garage or driveway to be able to charge it as the nearest charge point is about 30 miles away!