To just jack it all in because the family have fallen out over money?

[cultkid]

My husband and I live in the same place he has lived all his life.
I've lived here for six years or so since I was about 20
I'm almost 27 and I have two children with him. We have been married five years this year and are really in love. We have been pelted with some really shitty things to do with my health and then his family.
My family live abroad and I lived abroad until I came to the uk for uni.

His family run a business which he owns a portion of. They used to pay him dividends and he worked there full time for about 10 years to found a really successful company.

When I was pregnant and had my first son we started a new business together. It was supposed to run along the family business.

His family have pushed him out of the business and stopped dividends, illeagally as they have been paying themselves them.
The business has been run into the ground.

We want the money and documents he is rightfully owed and we could instruct a solicitor. He has asked for three years to know what's going on with the business.
They have founded new businesses to compete with the family one... they are trying to run it to the end in order to avoid paying him.

It's all turned horrible and sour.
Aibu to just say no more now as it's gotten personal with their comments about me when I've been nothing but loving and neutral?

Should we just move to another place and try again instead of going legal with them and having that horrible experience?

Should we rent out house out and then rent somewhere else?

Aibu to not let them see the grandkids as per his request? They are his family after all and why should he let them see them if they have been so awful ..

Btw our new business required him to re train and he hasn't finished it yet
It's only 3 years old and we have bills to pay which he should have been able to cover based on dividends

He just had a horrific accident at work as well and that's what he was saying for years that he had no security ..

Should we go legal and hold our ground or for our children's sake is it unreasonable to just leave?

Where would you move if you rented out your home for say 1800 a month and wanted to spend a bit less then that on renting somewhere else?

When he was working for the company for 10 years did he take a lower wage in order to build the company up?

If he did then it is only right (morally) that he should also gain from the increase in the company's worth. His parents are being dicks, that must be really hurtful

What's caused this? Is it because he stopped working there? So his family felt he shouldn't be entitled to further money from it?

Also what do you mean your new business was supposed to run along side their business? Did they agree to this?

It seems like he stopped working there and still wished money, and he started working a new business, that possibly competed and they are not happy they clearly feel he shouldn't be taking money out if he doesn't work there.

Sorry also, when he left the business, how did it impact them? If he worked full time there, I'm assuming they had to hire someone to replace him? Hence that could be why their paye increased?

Shares in small businesses are generally worth pretty much nothing. The real value of the company, disregarding the staff themselves who may be the shareholders, amounts to the saleable value of the equipment owned in the name of the company, plus a notional value of the brand and existing customer book which for a lot if companies simply isn't worth a lot. The realisable value of the company is in the hours of work put in by the owners shareholders directors but that's not something that is fair to be owned by non-workers.

Not long ago there was a thread on here from a woman who had started a business years ago with £20,000 startup capital from her parents in exchange for a 50% share of ownership, and the businesses was now thriving and she was slaving away to provide huge dividend payoffs to her parents having paid back their original capital many many times over but was struggling to make ends meet for herself as she was effectively only able to keep half of everything she legitimately earned. All the advice was to run the old business down to nothing and start afresh and there was nothing wrong with that.

It simply wasn't appropriate for your DH to expect to be able to stop working for the family business and benefit from the sweat and toil of his brother & parents. When he stopped working for the business he should have sold his shares back to his family for 17% of the actual capital value of the saleable price of the business if it was going to be sold with no staff in place. Imagine the whole family got wiped out in a tragic accident (dh included) and you "inherited" the company - what would the value be for inheritance tax purposes? Some companies it would be less than £5000, others it might be a lot especially if the company owns land or other valuable assets.

I would go down the legal route if i were you. A Forensic Accountant would probably be instructed to go over the company's books with a fine toothed comb, to work out who has been paid what, and how much everyone should be paid etc.

ALL directors of a company have a fiduciary duty in respect of that company, running one company down to start another is not in the best interests of the company being run down, and there can be quite serious repercussions in this respect, not least Directors Disqualification Proceedings being issued by the Secretary of State, which means once disqualified you cannot act as a director for a period of 10 years or more. Plus if it can be shown that funds from the run down company have been used to set up another, that is a serious breach, which again has massive repercussions.

does the old company have any outstanding debts, was it sold as a going concern, put into administration or liquidation?

you really need to go down the legal route so you can the answer to all these questions

It simply wasn't appropriate for your DH to expect to be able to stop working for the family business and benefit from the sweat and toil of his brother & parents

I suspect this is the root cause of the problem, and depending on the business could have been highly unreasonable.

Please go legal..
Its not a question of "going legal" or maintaining a relationship for the children.. not an either or. How will you know what you are entitled to or not. How can you make decisions without finding out.
It is a bit closing the stable door after the horse has bolted but why have you allowed this to develop without getting proper legal advice. If they are flouting reporting rules and regs then you may well have some leverage but don't take my word for it.

Its good that you are going to have some proper real life legal advice about his rights in respect of the family company and I bet you will find it is worth every penny. You may well need accouting/financial advice as Youve got several different problems all going on at once.
You need legal advice about his rights to the company etc.
Also about your new company, his injury, renting etc. This is a lot to untangle for you.

Its upsetting when family fall out over money but now you have to completely lower your expectations of them as family members and start thinking of them as business relationships and deal with them accordingly. So although the things they are saying about you are hurtful.. you have to brush it off and not let it wound you. Keep records of conversations, emails, texts etc.. From your post it sounds as if you think they have exploited your DH, but only legal advice would sort out whether he has any case or not.
I don't think its helpful to even mention the children in this situation and certainly not to make declarations to the other side about it but also whilst you are deciding what to do about all of this its probably not a good time to have visits. It does sound like you would be happier once this situation is resolved one way or another and you can move forward. Best of luck

Just to clarify

1/ 4 of the other directors work there that is all.. so it's not their efforts however I can see why it could be perceived as that

He was payed via PAYE but I am not looking so much for legal advice

There is some really interesting information here I really appreciate it

He has a duty to stay informed of the companies finances as a director imo and withholding that is not good

I saw the post about the lady and her parents I remember that... but this is a case of some of the family taking enormous sums of money and disguising it in an array of manners and hoping my husband would stay quiet

You need proper legal advice and ASAP especially if documents with recent effect in appearing on companies house. Good luck x

"Approx maybe 150 thousand potentially"

"we are very tight financially at the moment and it's £600 for them initially but they are very good"

If this is the case then 600 to start getting 150,000 seems like a no-brainer cost.

Families do play around with their businesses sometimes, sorry it has come to this for you.

Thank you everyone 🖤
I will keep the children with us for now as it feels like a total lie to let them spend time together

Is the director that works there the father? In that case the dividends might really have been a tax-avoidance scheme, to funnel his earnings to his family. (But then I wonder why he no longer wants to benefit one particular son.)

Is the business mature enough that the on person who works there could be replaced by an employee paid a market wage and everyone continue to get the same dividends?

The author of "Rich Dad Poor Dad" isn't someone I'd normally quote (because the books are rubbish) but he had a rule of thumb: if you can have zero interaction with your business for months at a time without it making any difference to the profits earned, you own a business. If your business needs you to be there for it to run properly, you are self-employed.

I would need to know how crucial the working director is to the running of the business to decide whether it is a real business, or a self-employed person funnelling his profits to his family. (It can be a mixture of course, things aren't black and white.)

I think all of them are less then part timers with their input. It totally runs itself but they have an air of self importance.
Sorry I'm losing my grace now😭 I'm fed up

OP, is the family British?

Is there a cultural thing going in here?

A friend of my daughter's had something quite similar go on with a family business she was a shareholder in when she married someone 'the family' didn't approve of (DD's friend knows they would have tried to force an arranged marriage given chance).

Not saying there's anything similar with your predicament but in some cultures anything perceived as going against the needs/wishes of the wider family is a huge deal.

Yes they said they need to sit down and review everything before we meet they also did a check on the other directors to check there was no conflict of interest but I think they are dispute lawyers or something

It's such a heart ache
I only had a baby 5 weeks ago

They are English! Half of them are extremely religious .. Christians

I may have entirely the wrong idea of the business but is it like this?

Small family business which mum and dad gifted a share of to their sons expecting them to continue to work there and helpbrun it - either all together or while they retired?

Your husband goes off and starts his own business but still wants the rewards of the fruits of their labour. They feel this is a piss take so they neglect that business and start their own new businesses where they don't have to give him money.

You and your husband don't like it when they play the same game as you?

Is there some information that makes that understanding of the problem completely wrong?

Go down the legal route and have no further social interaction with them.

The lines are drawn and need to be adhered to, you can't be 'friendly' with them and you need to protect the well being of your own marriage and children.

I have some experience of a situation like this, and strongly advise that you keep away from them. Two of my relatives perjured themselves in court in my family case.