Are curtain poles a fixture

[lucylockett27]

I am buying a house. A house that I know we are paying slightly over the odds for, but it is all done so we decided to go for it. Anyway the seller has said they want £1000 for curtain poles and light fittings! I have sold 2 house before and assumed these were fixtures, as in fixed to the house, so I left them and the 2 houses I have bought previously they were always left. AIBU to think the seller has to leave them?

I think if they are lucky enough to have sold their house for a very good price, then they should be leaving them for you for free. Tell them you don't want them. I must admit that I understand where your DH is coming from: this is sheer greed on the Vendor's part. My friend bought a house years ago: the Vendor was actually emigrating, and yet was trying to charge my friend thousands for curtains, fittings - and even some furniture. She clearly didn't plan on taking it abroad (Australia), but tried to get my friend to give her more money. The house had been for sale for ages, so she should have been giving more incentives to get the sale through, not adding on extras! My friend said she didn't want any of it, but ended up getting most for free. I think since you've paid over the odds, these fittings should be left for you as part of the deal.

If I moved I'd be taking light fittings. And the poles if they fitted my new house.

I'd leave light bulbs though.

That's what's happened in every house we've moved in to.

I would be very polite and say, “That’s very kind of you, but we don’t want them, thanks. Please make sure when you take them you make good the walls and leave the lighting safe as required by law”. Just close it right down

^^ This

I think since you've paid over the odds, these fittings should be left for you as part of the deal.

We only have OP's view on 'over the odds'. She also says they have offered asking price. The asking price may have been low because the vendors planned to negotiate extra for fittings. No idea where in the country it is or how long it has been on the market for. An asking price offer on a house that has only just been listed is very different to one that has been listed for months.

They don't have to leave either - with lights all they have to leave is the bare bulb.

Tell them you're not bothered about them but remind them if they remove them they have to make good any holes left behind and also touch up the paint to match the rest of the room. Any failure to do this will result in action from yourself.

Some sellers will take everything, some are totally the oposite.

When we bought our house the old owners left, curtains and poles, light fittings, all white goods, mature plants in pots (two huge camelias and a magnolia tree and lots of David Austin roses) and a lovely garden bench. They even left a cupboard of cleaning supplies.
The most generous was the fact that the dishwasher broke between signing contracts and handing over the keys and they replaced it with brand new ones. They were absolutely lovely, which is funny as our now neighbours said they were a nightmare.

I wish all these items were included in property listings as it might change the offers people are willing to put in.
I also second telling them 'no, thank you' and ask for holes to be repaired.
We paid thousands for our stupid lights, there isn't a chance I'd leave them behind, especially as people after us might just chuck them

We’ve left all of our stuff before, and we’re treated like crap. This time when we move we are taking everything, but will be leaving it in pristine condition, everything made good and working. I’m not leaving £1500 curtains and poles in my living room. What I will do though, is remove carefully and make sure there’s no unsightly holes or damage when we go. I’m also not leaving my original 1960’s Sputnik lights that I spent a fortune getting rewired. Will leave them with normal pendant and bulb. I’ve told them directly that curtains/poles and lights aren’t included so it’s been clear from the beginning. I’m leaving the blinds in the Children’s rooms though, because I know they have children and want to get them settled as quickly as possible, even though the blinds would fit in my new house. Again this has all been said to them so they know what to expect. What’s all this about people taking carpets and light switches and things though? That’s going too far to me.

But that's what an offer is made on - the shell of the house

That's completely incorrect. Legally fixtures should be included, fittings by negotiation, and there are some gray areas like curtain poles, where they can be deemed either.

www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-sept-dec-2018/what-is-the-difference-between-fixtures-and-fittings/

My friend paid an extra £2000 for curtains in all the rooms, expecting the lovely thick made to measure curtains they’d seen on viewing. These went beautifully with the period House.

The vendors removed those curtains, replaced them with cheap power rangers ready made in every room.

They even provided proof that those were the curtains in the house at the time of exchange, so they got away with it (house is sold as at date of exchange).

Tell them you're not bothered about them but remind them if they remove them they have to make good any holes left behind and also touch up the paint to match the rest of the room. Any failure to do this will result in action from yourself.

Good luck with that. Hope you can afford to do it.

The most generous was the fact that the dishwasher broke between signing contracts and handing over the keys and they replaced it with brand new ones. They were absolutely lovely, which is funny as our now neighbours said they were a nightmare.

We had similar with the fridge, the door open the freezer bit broke so they got us a new one. They didn't get on with the ndn either.

Bluntness If you go and read the actual sample TA10 form from the Law Society, it lists everything in the house (bar furniture), i.e. the shell of the house The vendor decides what is or is not included in their sale or how much they want for it. It is up to the buyer to inspect the list carefully and decide if they wish to proceed or negotiate. Most vendors aren't going to decide to take boilers or other fixtures with them or try to get extra money for them, but they are completely legally at liberty to do so. Morally is a separate question.

The article you link to states 'it is generally assumed fixtures are included', not that they have to be included legally. It also specifies that things held up by screws or nails (such as light fittings and curtain rails, which OP is asking about) are generally classed as fittings. The vendor here is doing nothing wrong, the OP and her DH have just made assumptions which they have now found were wrong.

? You don’t need an electrician to put in a new light fitting. The sellers have to leave the wire & socket.

Spinneret, yes, but the offer is made on the assumption the fixtures stay, if they do not, then that can either be negotiated or accepted. Of course it needs to be clarified what stays and what does not, but th going in position is the offer is made on the fixtures being in place.

No one offers on a house assuming a shell, which means that the carpets, boiler, kitchen etc are all removed.

Spinneret, yes, but the offer is made on the assumption the fixtures stay, if they do not, then that can either be negotiated or accepted. Of course it needs to be clarified what stays and what does not, but th going in position is the offer is made on the fixtures being in place

Which is why nothing is binding until Exchange of contracts. Solicitors/agents should be advising buyers if anything in particular is being taken, otherwise it’s common sense to wait until you receive the information and peruse the forms carefully!

Exactly jacques.

When we bought this house 30 years ago, the estate agent negotiated for our sellers to drop their asking price and the price of the show house our buyers wanted to buy so the sale could go ahead. We were stretched and the house had been on the market for a while. All sorted we thought. But then our buyers wanted another £1000 for the carpets and curtains. Can’t understand why as they were moving to a former show house. We said we were at our limit but in the end agreed another £500 so as not to lose the house.
When we moved in the cheeky sellers had replaced the curtains we had previously seen with old ones. Didn’t bother us as we gradually replaced them to our own tastes. However, the neighbours told us they had replaced all the light and socket covers from gold to white plastic. We didn’t notice and hate gold ones anyway! Also they had got a plumber to remove all the radiator thermostat controls but then had to get him to put them back as they were told this was illegal! The house was immaculate though for which I was grateful.
There is a limit to what you find acceptable but you don’t want to lose the house for something that won’t really matter in the long term.

I was told to imagine the property lifted and turned upside down, anything that stays put can't be removed. Don't know how true this is.

Don't know how true this is

Not true at all

Well we move I will take most of my lights, they are either vintage or ££££ so I’m very attached to them. I would leave a bulb/working light though.

Wouldn’t bother with door knobs, radiators, etc

Bloody hell, £1000. No thanks.

We paid £50 for the dishwasher as it was a slimline and our current full size one wouldn't fit in the kitchen. They left the curtain pole and curtains in the living room and a few lampshades on lights, others were taken, which I can understand as we've bought ones to go on all but two of the lights (the other two we've just left their neutral shades on as we don't mind them) and I'd take all of those with us because I like them. We have replaced the single bulb light in our bedroom with a 5 arm style one and I'd take that with us if we moved, but of course I'd ensure they were left with a single bulb fitting. We'd most likely also take the poles in our bedroom as they were expensive and we could use them again.

Find the pp who said they took their lightbulbs a bit petty! Why?! Our vendors left them all behind so we at least had light when we moved in.

We didn't offer the full asking price on our house assuming that anything would be left. We offered the full because we loved the house and it would have gone quickly. That they left the curtains, which fit the living room perfectly was just an added bonus to us. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have batted an eyelid. We had ones that could go up ready to go anyway.

What about shutters?

We left our curtain poles in our old house as they were the previous vendors and it seemed a bit off to take them. When we bought our current house the vendors told us straight off they would be taking their fancy chandeliers and twiddly iron curtain poles as they were v expensive and wanted them for their new house - fine with us, and they filled and skimmed the walls where the poles had been and had simple lightbulb fittings put in where the chandeliers were.

They did offer us their custom Roman blinds for £1200 (!) but we declined as they weren’t our taste, so they took them anyway despite them not fitting their new windows .

I believe vendors are obliged to ‘make good’ wherever they’ve removed any fittings and that includes putting a basic pendant lightbulb in were they’ve removed light fittings.

I do wonder whether you’d ever actually be able to successfully pursue someone who didn’t ‘make good tho’....