To find friend hypocritical on environment

[Shortstuff99]

I have a very good friend who says they are very concerned about climate change, they keep sending me articles about it and saying how worried they are and criticising me for not caring enough.

This friend has a BMW with a 3 litre engine and has just booked a holiday to Crete and previously gave up being a vege to eat meat.

I have pointed out that these are bad for the environment and that if they cared they could make changes that would help but they keep saying that their own changes wouldn’t make a difference and it’s only worth changing if everyone changes.

Am I unreasonable in finding this to be a weak and hypocritical argument. It is, in truth, a little annoying.

At the moment it's very trendy to bang on about the environment. People like your friend will eventually tire of it and move onto the next thing.

It's a shame but don't let it get you down - thankfully there are quite a lot of people who genuinely care about environmental issues and they will continue to make good choices even after the cool crowd have moved on.

It sounds like you both have a one upmanship/competitive relationship, which is going to always lead to mini fallouts- whatever the topic.

I agree it’s annoying when people go on about the environment like this, while at the same time making no changes to their own behaviour.
I don’t know how you can stop her doing it though. Except for the pp’s suggestion of reflecting her own justifications back at her if she’s lecturing you about you not doing enough to help.

I’m not convinced plastic straws are a major source of plastic waste either. I don’t know of any research into it, but I’d have thought things like food packaging were a much bigger source of plastic waste.

Plastic straws are just an easy target - most people can manage without straws altogether (although bendy plastic straws do make drinking much easier for some disabled people), and it’s relatively easy to find alternatives to plastic straws.

Ahhh, one of those who won't change their own behaviour but demands that others do, or that others (governments) force them to change theirs through policy.

When in doubt, appeal to authority and cite Gandhi (because what average UK person would be able to say that they are wiser than Gandhi, either with a straight face or without having the mick taken mercilessly by their mates)...

"Be the change you wish to see in the world".

Ah, so everyone needs to change but not her! YANBU!

You are not being unreasonable. But she is probably in the grip of anxiety and that can make your thought processes on these things a bit skewed. Show her this article. www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/08/climate-crisis-reducing-lands-ability-to-sustain-humanity-says-ipcc

And this one: www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/08/how-climates-impact-on-land-threatens-civilisation-and-how-to-fix-it

But be prepared to go round and round a bit because quite frankly it is depressing to think that Governments know what to do but aren’t doing it. Individual change is important but trying to make those changes and live without going mad shows up how little control we have over systems (like the food system, energy markets etc) that we didn’t create and haven’t ever needed to understand. Blaming each other for being hypocritical or not informed enough respectively will go round and round in circles I think! :) I’ve stopped eating meat and dairy, and I won’t fly anymore. I do wonder about the sustainability of chickpeas and electric cars won’t let things carry on the way they are. I think there’s been some research to show that talking about climate change is one of the most important things we can do because the fact is before any of us were aware or could have been aware of the nature and scale of the crisis there were people in oil companies and indeed governments who knew what would happen and not only did nothing but made every effort to cloud the debate and cover up what they knew by spreading uncertainty. (See Merchants if Doubt, Losing Earth: The Decade we could have stopped climate change, and the Frank Luntz memo to conservatives about switching language from scary global warming to more uncertain climate change). I feel gutted and there’s a moment just before I wake up every day when I think it’s not real but then it still is. I can understand where your friend is coming from. It will take a massive shift to change things. And it may not happen, in which case who on earth knows what will - no-one, except that people are already starting to invest in water as a scarce resource (NYTimes yesterday) and the temperatures will keep rising. I have sympathy with your friend’s probable feeling of overwhelm that might be stopping here from hearing you. If you guys want to do more, I’ve been helping something called TransitionLab.earth get off the ground - aiming to accelerate the work of scientists who want to get to work now on adapting to hotter world and preventing the worst effects. The Government is moving too slowly. There’s also the General Strike on 20th September. Unions, young people engaged and will strike all over country. Sorry this is long. Just wanted to show that you guys not alone in debating this, but hope you can find ways not to fall out over it. Times are uncertain and friends are important. X

PS yes, re plastic straws, I think I’ve seem it’s something like 4% of the plastic waste problem (it’s still huge - it’s just that there’s so much plastic in the ocean that by 2050 by mass there will be more of it in the ocean than fish). So the ban is symbolic and probably therefore useful on that level. But keeping the debate at this consumer level is damaging. We can all make small changes within the systems we live in that will help. And the more of us who do, the more it will help. But don’t forget to tell people that we’ve been deceived - deliberately allowed to think we could carry on with these unsustainable systems so that a few people could get very rich.

People rolling their eyes and shrugging on this thread. I found out about the full scale and horror of climate change and global warming only after I had had my baby. And it is an agonising decision to think I perhaps should not try for a second given the circumstances. That research is important, but it also highlights that the future emissions of any children cannot be known and of course, in a lower emissions economy that impact may not hold true. One of the reasons I’m doing everything I can on this. The policy levers are known about and available to use to ensure our nation emits less. They’re just not being enacted. I won’t feel guilty about being a mother. If everyone did we might as well give up as a species. I respect those who have chosen to not have children, whatever their reasons. This kind of sniping at each other is what will hold us back from focusing attention on the actual issues - that people are profiting from deliberately degrading the planet on a massive scale. Perhaps we could try and be a bit kinder to each other as we try and figure this out?

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I will continue to roll my eyes at anyone with multiple children who dares to suggest I shouldn't travel. People in glass housed shouldn't throw stones. But yes I do agree that the real issue is getting the global leaders to act. Which isn't going to happen.

*houses

CazY777

Couldn’t have said it better

Not sure I understand emojis enough to comment, but if it’s a dig at me so be it. :) Learning how to communicate about this. **Petsr4life - yes fair enough if people are actually telling you what you should do without reflecting on themselves and what they’re doing, that’s probably worth an eye roll. I’m probably being over sensitive because this is a massive issue for me currently trying to weigh it up and decide whether to double down on the life choices I’ve made.

I don’t know many people who aren’t hypocrites to some degree, including me and I have to give my head a wobble when I find myself doing it. It’s great to want to push for change but another thing to go all out and do it. I guess it’s the sanctimony that goes with it that gets me (and you, OP). Like vegetarians who harass diners yet don’t seem bothered about wearing leather shoes/belts/wristbands etc. Somehow it’s okay to use animals for fashion but not nutrition... M-kay.

She sounds like an idiot.

I know a woman who's quite wealthy...has four children and travels the world with them. No issue with that...I would too if I could afford to. But she bleats on about the environment constantly...I dread to think what her and her family's carbon footprint is. Hypocrites.

I will continue to roll my eyes at anyone with multiple children who dares to suggest I shouldn't travel.

That's understandable, but lots of people with children (including me) have only realised the dire state we're in after having them. Bit late to do anything about that now. (And DH and I agree that if we were at the point in life of considering children now, we wouldn't have any).

I think that if as a society we are really going to try and get to grips with this there are going to be some things which on the face of it are unfair, but we aren't going to have much choice.

Sorry, that comment was written by my 4 year old!

keeping the debate at this consumer level is damaging

Do remember that governments work for us. Only by the population demanding change will government change. Therefore it’s important for all to live by and share the values we care about.

Conversely I’ve actually solved this particular one with ease following tips from a couple on here

Responded to the latest guardian article being copied and pasted into a WhatsApp to me by saying;

‘Oh it’s terrible isn’t it, sadly there’s nothing I can do about it so I’d rather not think about it too much otherwise it gets me down- I wish I could do something to help but I can’t as it wouldn’t make a difference!’ Seems to have worked for now and the conversation has moved on