AIBU to leave council flat for private renting? 5 in a 1 bed flat.

[Hereforhelp]

Hi. So I was housed a 1 bedroom flat with council when I was 7 months pregnant with my first child. Now theres 5 of us in the same flat me, dh, dd 5 yrs, DS1 3 yrs and DS2 4 months old.

Dh and I are both employed, him full time me part time (currently on maternity leave) & don’t receive any sort of benefit.

The plan for our family increase was to return flat and private rent somewhere bigger but now private rent have massively increased £300 more than it was 2 years ago 😅 so that plan failed, leaving us cramped, in a 1 bed 🙃

We’ve tried to talk to council but according to law we’re not overcrowded as living room could be used as bedroom too and according to my room measurements each room can fit up to 2 adults (that’ll be 4 kids in each bedroom as they count a kid as half an adult).

Shall I hang in here and hopefully be rehoused after couple of years or stretch our finances and rent privately? People are calling me mad to be thinking of giving up a council home & I’d hate to give up the security of our home tbh but we are so desperate!!

Has anyone here left a council home for private renting? Or has anyone got a success story of getting rehoused due to overcrowding?

My SIL has done the opposite: come out of private renting to go into a council flat (which she pays for and all the bills, utilities). It's really too small for the family and only works because their DS is at Uni, so sleeps in the living room or at his Gran's house when home.

She's had 20 years of insecure private renting, extortionate rent, many times where LL has suddenly said I'm coming home (LL renting our home while travelling, came home years earlier than planned) or you have to move out or I'm selling or rent goes up.

The LA flat's rent is one third of private rents.

Your flat sounds amazing actually. Look up tiny house living ideas and stay put and save, save, save!

Sorry for the typos subsidised

Truly curious why OP is being bashed . Surely the hallmark of a civilised society is support for lower earners

Yes, when they're doing everything they can to help themselves.

OP knew she didn't have space and decided to have more children anyway. She didn't have an unexpected triplet pregnancy or lose her job or become disabled.

Plenty of people have to curb the number of children they have because of lack of space, financial constraints etc. Why should OP be any different to anyone else?

She has a secure roof over her head and the ability to pay for a privately rented house if she wants more space. Why should the council house her when she's more than capable of housing herself?

I haven't read all the comments because some of them just on page 1 were totally ridiculous

I can't believe you're not classed as over crowded. That doesn't sound right to me. Can you register with other housing associations in your area/surrounding area? A friend of mine registered with a few different ones when she was overcrowded and got a place within 6 weeks. It does fully depend what the housing situation is like in your area though, some are dire and just don't have enough to go round. We're not too bad where I am in Glasgow.

I left my council house when I fell pregnant with DS2. Been in my private rent for 6 years now. I think its luck of the draw on how stable your private rent will be, if you're a good tenant then no one will be in a hurry to get rid of you and it's just bad luck if a landlord decides to sell up. I personally keep enough savings though that should we ever have to move suddenly, we have enough for first months rent and deposit and moving costs etc covered. Would you be in a position to do that, or build up your savings, to do that? It does help to feel more secure.

If you and the kids are happy enough where you are at the moment, I'd keep trying to get a bigger place via the council and keep saving as much money as you can. If you haven't got anywhere in a few years once the kids are bigger and it starts to feel too crowded, you could look at private renting then.

Good luck OP

I feel like half the people on this thread genuinely think council houses are free? You guys do know council tenants pay rent, right? And council tax? You know council tenants aren’t actually being subsidised by your personal taxes, right?

It depends where you are in the country. Some places with very low demand there might be very little subsidy, but that's definitely not true in London. I think there is a government policy that council flats should let out at something like 90% of a market rent, but not sure to what extent councils comply with that. (If let at 90% rent that means there is a 10% subsidy even if no housing benefit is being recieved.) In one of the TV programs on council housing in recent years I saw a woman getting a brand new flat in a Tower Hamlets high-rise for a rent that was hundreds of pounds per week less than it was worth. So even if she paid full rent without housing benefit, she was being subsidised by in the region of 10K per year.

There's actually a very simple way you can tell if housing in your area is subsidised: find out if you have meet special criteria and/or wait to get it. If anyone regardless of circumstance can get a council house within a few months just by filling in a form, that means there's no subsidy. The free market uses price to make supply and demand meet, where below-market prices are charged demand will always exceed supply and the supplier will have to use queues and filters to decide who gets houses.

I would stay put at least for another year and it sound like you will be classed as overcrowded when your son turns one. In the meantime save so that you can get a deposit to buy somewhere.

DON'T GIVE UP A COUNCIL TENANCY. God knows what Brexit will bring. I think, if you haven't done so, you a should speak to Shelter.

Two years to wait to get rehomed from a LA property! Love to know where. Myself, DP and DD have been waiting over two years with mountains of medical evidence, weekly stair falls, one of us in a wheelchair and one of us blind for a flat.

That is a dreadful situation and I am sorry that you are having to be living in it. It however does show how wildly things differ, in the north where I am you would be housed in a matter of months even in the high demand areas. (As long as you were realistic and not holding out for a particular side of a street) I hope something comes up soon.

OP are you actually on the register? All I can advise is if you are and are bidding, keep your options open and push your area as wide as possible.

I'm in two minds about this. Obviously, 5 of you in a one bed is far from ideal but if you'll be classed as overcrowded when your baby turns 1 in might be worth hanging on to see if you will be allocated a larger home before looking at a private rental?
I'd be worried about the lack of security that comes with private renting as we have just moved for the third time in three years due to our last two landlords selling up. It's stressful and the upheaval with our DC's has been awful tbh. We managed to find the last rental by the skin of our teeth as there is very low supply where we live - 8 couples viewed the same day so lots of competition for the same property!

I think you should house your children in a bigger place, and you should rent privately. Are you planning to have a fourth child? If you are, take into account that there will be a lot more expenses as they get older. Not saying that to have a go as I have four and didn't forecast as well as I could have done!

Plenty of people have to curb the number of children they have because of lack of space, financial constraints etc. Why should OP be any different to anyone else?
We would have loved more than one dc but unfortunately we couldn’t afford to move and the house we own was too small.
In your position op I would move to the private rented

Op I'm not sure how much the rules have changed since I last moved with sh but I don't see how your not over crowded.
My first port of call would be getting yourself on the list to bid.
Is there legal measurements on how big a room has to be.
Years ago you couldn't use the lounge as a bedroom if the kitchen opened into it.
Shelter should be the best place to advise.
Are there any issues with mould/damp, electrics?
If there is keep complaining raising you level of complaint about how it is unsafe to raise children in that environment.
While that is going on put the difference between what you pay in rent now v private renting into savings then hopefully you will have some options and some money behind you.

I personally gave up a ha tenancy to buy a house (15 Years ago) but 2 years later I was back in sh because of a relationship break down.
That was different times. I know now I would be waiting 5+ Years in my area for a home.
I wouldn't do it again. It's not worth the uncertainty when you've got children.
Good luck.

Could you have a sofa bed in the living room for you and dh and a triple bunk bed in the bedroom for the Kids ? We had one of those, it's like a double on the bottom and a single on top, think we got it in argos.

I'd hang out where you are for now, you have great outdoors space to make up for lack of room indoors, cheaper rent and so-on. I'd use the opportunity of lower housing costs to evaluate how you can improve your lot, by considering things such as
*improving earning prospects (additional qualifications, changing jobs to better paid ones etc)
*saving (while rent is lower than it would be in private, allocate sums of money to saving a deposit, look to keeping spend/bills to a minimum and save save save)

• consider relocating to a cheaper area to buy/rent, do some research as to what jobs could you get etc
• investigate shared ownership properties, and other lower cost methods of buying a property vs renting.

Although I'm baffled as to why people don't do all this before kids/more kids, knowing you have to live somewhere?
(I accept not possible for some people)

Threads like this amaze me, and worry me.

You wouldn't buy a boat if you had nowhere to sail it, or get a dog if you had nowhere to walk it.

Why then do couples insist on having three or four children when those kids literally have nowhere to sleep?

Somebody please explain the logic of that behaviour to me.

The very idea that the OP only had a half baked idea to "rent privately in a few years" demonstrates just how deluded she is. Most reasonably responsible people, when considering housing costs, plan for inflation. What on earth made you believe that rents wouldn't increase year on year?

Seriously!

I WANT. I WANT. I WANT.

The battle cry of an entire generation who are entirely deluded.

I want more kids. I want a bigger house. I want advice to help get me out of the mess that I created all by myself.

FFS

Whether you agree with the op’s decisions or not, it certainly isn’t right that the dc suffer as a result of them. Of course the family should be helped to improve their living situation, isn’t this the mark of a civilised society?

Most people also private rent before buying so people who have never had the ‘luxury’ of council security struggle to understand this mindset.

Absolutely agree with this. It is difficult for those of whom council housing would never have been a consideration to understand this mindset, but it is an option in our society so why shouldn’t people take advantage of this?

Some places with very low demand there might be very little subsidy, but that's definitely not true in London.

Yes it is. From Ten Myths About Council Housing

1. Council housing is subsidised

It isn’t. Far from it.

Here in Islington, most council housing blocks were built decades ago and tenants have been paying rent on their properties ever since. Council housing is administered through an account that is separate from all other local authority spending, the Housing Revenue Account, which has to remain solvent.

Council housing pays for itself either through rents or by the building of some new private homes for open market sale. This is what many councils have to do in the absence of government funding.

I think there is a government policy that council flats should let out at something like 90% of a market rent, but not sure to what extent councils comply with that.

No there isn't. You're talking about what is laughably called 'affordable rent' - as opposed to social rent. The policy is that LAs and HAs can build new properties and offer at 'affordable rent', and they can convert empty properties from social to affordable tenancies, as a way of increasing housing revenue to reinvest in increasing stock. They don't have to and there is no plan to end social rents.

@T0getherindreams

You wouldn't buy a boat if you had nowhere to sail it, or get a dog if you had nowhere to walk it”

kids aren't boats, or dogs

Why then do couples insist on having three or four children when those kids literally have nowhere to sleep?

They literally have somewhere to sleep, stop being so dramatic.

Have you tried housing associations instead of council a lot now will take "private tenants" but the rent is a lot cheaper places like places for people and sanctuary housing?

You people saying she shouldn't have kids also suggest only the 'rich' have kids because that's what it sounds like .

Saying the OP shouldn't have had more kids that she couldn't house properly isn't saying that only the rich can have kids ffs is saying "don't have kids that you can't afford to feed" saying that only the rich can have children too? Don't be ridiculous.

The very idea that the OP only had a half baked idea to "rent privately in a few years" demonstrates just how deluded she is. Most reasonably responsible people, when considering housing costs, plan for inflation. What on earth made you believe that rents wouldn't increase year on year?

It's interesting that you conveniently ignored this part of @t0getherindreams post but responded to the parts you think you can answer to. I think that illuminates how reluctant you are to take responsibility for your situation and acknowledge that you are/were incredibly naive.

On a practical note, If you decide to stay OP, I would advise you to step back and have a clear strategy on how to cope with lack of space long term. For me that would be completely decluttering and saving up to redecorate in the style of a neutral, high end hotel suite (to whatever level budget allows of course). Concealed storage, smart lighting, TV on wall bracket that swivels, desk, symmetry, blackout blinds.
For the sake of your MH, use the bedroom for all the DC and a quality sofa bed for you and DH. The calm, ordered look and feel of a hotel suite with 1 single neutral colour on the walls and flooring throughout. Never bring anything unnecessary into the flat. Be strict on clothes, toys and clutter. Less is more when 5 people share a space. In the summer it is easy to stay outdoors longer and give children space and freedom in parks. You'll find it tougher in winter so will need a plan for staying out so you aren't all on top of each other. Swimming in evenings after work? Gym with a creche?

@Hereforhelp

The point is that, generally speaking, people who have saved to buy a home or people who private rent do not just keep popping out children when they don't have space for them. If they own their home, they'd need to sell and buy somewhere bigger. If they can't afford a bigger home, they don't pop out more children. If they private rent and end up overcrowding it, they risk the landlord serving notice because landlords don't want that much of a liability, so they stop popping out kids.

But social housing tenants, like you, continue to pop kids out and then say "we now need a bigger place but the Co U cup won't give us one... moan, moan, moan". Those of us who are responsible for our own housing plan ahead and don't have kids we can't house comfortably. But people like you just keep having kids and then get pissed off when the council won't hand you an affordable house.

Stop having kids. Sort our your own housing.

*council won't give us one.

Such a lot of knobs on this thread. "You must be on a massive salary if you don't get child benefit" oh DO fuck off. OP never said she didn't get child benefit. She said she gets no benefits. Which I assume means she gets nothing other than child benefit which EVERYONE who isn't on an absolutely enormous salary gets. Now I shall be told that if you don't earn enough to not qualify for child benefit you shouldn't have children and that if you do get child benefit you're a scrounger.

Sorry people are being so unpleasant OP. I think a fold out, 2 seater sofa bed is the way forward here. I slept on one for a year and it was fine.

Have you ever watched Marie Kondo? I imagine you would need to be strictly clutter free to keep your head together in a small living space.