Tenant Always Pays Late

[el1zabeth]

I have a tenant who, for the last 8 months is always late with the rent. When she moved into the house 2 years ago, she would pay in 6 monthly chunks which was great.

At the beginning of this year she had a nasty altercation with her boyfriend (who also lived at the house) and he left. I asked if she wanted to remain living there with her 2 little children, and did she want to continue to pay in 6 month lump sums. At the time she said that she did want to stay, but would it be okay if she paid month to month until she decided what to do, so I agreed.

Since then, I have always had to text /email /phone her to remind that it's time for the rent (due on 1st of each month) and each time I try to make contact it takes days before she responds, and there's always some excuse such as "sorry I didn't see your text, one of the kids must have got hold of my phone and read it" or "I tried to transfer the money but someone has hacked into my online account so I need to go to the bank to sort it" and other similar scenarios. I am always having to pretty much beg for the rent, and it's making me pissed off. It's MY house and she already underpays (according to the going rate by around £100 monthly) I have bills to pay from the monthly rent, which ok, I usually have sufficient in my account to cover them, but it's not the point.

She's now late again, and her latest excuse yesterday was that she was out for the day and the (alleged) standing order that she set up, she'd accidentally set it for the 9th of the month which is eight days over the contract due date.

My husband thinks perhaps it's time to give her notice to vacate, but I'll feel bad knowing that she did have a terrible time at the beginning of the year and she has two very young children to take care of alone. I know she loves living there plus she said the schools where she wants her kids to attend are in the right district, but this is a business and I'm not a charity and I shouldn't have to be the one who feels guilty asking for what is our money.

Would it be unreasonable to give her notice to get out, or do I simply carry on calling emailing texting and ultimately going to the house to collect the rent, late, each month?

It doesn't matter if it's a professional or "hobby" ll, or even if it's another kind of business entirely.

If there is a contract in force which stipulates that X amount must be paid by Y date then that has to happen. And if it doesn't happen, the counterparty is within their rights to terminate the contract.

If I didn't pay my phone bill or my credit card bill or my water bill on time every month then I would expect there to be consequences. Why is rent any different?

In this case there have been repeated late payments. The OP is perfectly reasonable to say that this cannot keep happening and if it does keep happening then the tenant will need to leave. She's not throwing her out onto the street with no notice.

It's funny how all the people who've criticised my earlier post fail to address my fundamental point:

If getting the rent late each month causes you real financial hardship, you really shouldn't be a landlord.

If it doesn't and you still get the rent in full, perhaps you should cut your tenant some slack instead of threatening her with eviction - you're dealing with a human being here, not some kind of cash cow, and a bit of humanity wouldn't go amiss.

I’d be tempted to go round and tell her that she must set up a standing order to pay on the first or she will be evicted

Are you paying tax on the rental income?

I can't see any reason for you to accept cash unless you're trying to avoid tax.

I've been a landlord for 15 years. I have tenants who pay late by a few days every month. It's a bit annoying but I weight it up with the fact they're otherwise good tenants. In your situation it's a bit different as she's not just a few days late. I would go and speak to her and see if the date needs to be rearranged, but also say once that's agreed if the rent is late again you will have to serve her notice.

I'd talk to the tenant to find out if the delay is linked to benefits being paid a bit later in the month.

@BurnedToast there's no reason you cannot pay tax on cash in hand, so that insinuation is entirely unnecessary and irrelevant to the thread, especially as the OP states it's the tenant's choice to now pay in cash (when previously they paid by bank transfer).

And as for showing humanity, the OP has given the tenant leeway for 8 months. She's had 8 chances to get it right. How many more chances do you give someone?

It would be one thing if the tenant had said "I'm having difficulty paying on the 1st, paying on the 10th (or whatever) would be easier for me, can we move to that date?", but from what the OP has said I don't think that's happened.

Wads of cash + paying 6 months up front = cannabis factory in the loft

Could some of these posts be more patronising? The tenant is a single parent, not a child. I doubt she’d welcome advice on how to “sort her life out” or condescending acknowledgement of her single parent status. OP’s financial situation is her own business, it would be as daft a situation if she wasn’t relying on the rental income and had millions in the bank - she’s not a charity, she has a business arrangement with this woman who is taking the piss. I privately rented for years. Your first priority is the roof over your head, then council tax and bills. As an adult it’s your own responsibility to be on top of this stuff and she hasn’t even bothered to try and talk to OP other than to lie and make excuses.

Stick to your guns OP. That other tenants might be worse means nothing to this situation, neither does your tenants income/benefits/any other issues. She could have done you the courtesy of trying to explain if she’s having difficulties and as she hasn’t you can only assume she thinks you’re a soft touch.

By all means talk tough because people will take a mile if given an inch with money but I don't think in these situations it makes business sense to go for eviction.

She will likely stop paying rent when you give notice and it could cost you a lot to get rid of her. You could then get another tenant in who doesn't pay rent or trashes the place. It is better the devil you know.

Yes, as a matter of principle, she should pay on the agreed date but I don't think it is a ditch to die in. As long as the money keeps flowing, I would be saying it is unacceptable but ultimately be prepared to accept it.

The relationship between tenants and landlords - it used to be a purely business arrangement between two parties who understood the rules, but now it's become polarised into a war between landlords and tenants, each side desperately trying to bully the other into accepting their demands.

@FluffyHippo what? This is a business arrangement. The LL agrees to let the person live in their property and the tenant agrees to pay the LL for this. There is a contract that states this money must be paid on a certain date.

Using words like 'a war' and 'bullying' is just ridiculous. Nobody is desperately trying to do anything. The rent is owed it should be paid.
I don't say to the bank sorry I didn't get your message I had no idea the mortgage was due I'll pay it soon. It's the same thing, I need to pay to live in my house, on time.

FluffyHippo

It's funny how all the people who've criticised my earlier post fail to address my fundamental point:

If getting the rent late each month causes you real financial hardship, you really shouldn't be a landlord.

Rubbish! I was a LL for 10 years renting out my own home as my DH was in the forces and we were tenants and ourselves in an army quarter. If my tenants didn’t pay I couldn’t pay my mortgage.

You can’t treat your mortgage lender in the way OPs tenant is behaving otherwise you’d lose your house

@Lockheart. Of course you can pay tax on cash, but why would a LL want the inconvenience of having to go to the property to pick up caah, or have wads of cash when it was being paid 6 months at a time rather which presably they the have to go and take to their bank in order to have a trail of transactions, rather than have it transfered straight into their account?

It's not for you to police which direction people choose to go when they join a 'discussion' on a forum. My question may not be directly relevant to what the OP is asking, but it doesn't mean I can't ask.

And actually the OP did not say the tenant previously paid by bank transfer. I'm pretty sure in one of her first posts she said the tenant had always paid in cash. Happy to be corrected, but that's what made me wonder about the tax.

See yesterday's message at 23.06. She has always paid in cash and no direct debit had been set up.

@BurnedToast on page 2 the OP says the tenant paid by bank transfer when paying in 6m installments, then switched to cash when paying monthly.

I don't know why the OP would agree to the inconvenience of going to physically collect cash - maybe she was trying to be kind and show flexibility to a tenant who was having a difficult time?

The insinuation that the OP isn't paying tax on the rent is irrelevant to the thread and is just a way of having a sly dig at the OP.

I think some of you are being pretty harsh towards the OP here. The OP has every legal and moral right to serve notice. But rather, the OP does have a conscience and is sensitive to the circumstances of the tenant.

I think the approach that has been taken is the right one and in line with what I would do - a formal email saying that things need to change. As the tenant has been persistently late, as another poster has said, you are low down on their financial priority list. Housing costs must be top priority! And it sounds as if she would be in a much worse position if evicted with the one off costs that would involve for deposit etc (especially if you end up retaining hers against unpaid rent) and market rent being higher. Does your tenant work, OP?

I really don’t like this demonisation of landlords. Yes, some of them are utterly disgraceful but it doesn’t sound like the OP is one of them. This assertion that landlords are removing housing stock that might otherwise be sold is ridiculous as some people are just not financially responsible enough to own property. The tenant here is a case in point. You couldn’t treat your mortgage lender in the laissez-faire way that this tenant has treated the landlord.

Good luck with getting it resolved OP

And your opinion is irrelevant Lockheart.

It's a discussion forum so people can say and ask what they like as long as they're not insulting anyone.

The OP has in fact contradicted herself. In her first few posts she clearly said the tenant has always paid in cash. As you pointed out she then said the tenant paid the 6 month cash into her bank. Perhaps the OP was just referring to the monthly payments, but that's not what it reads as.

Either way, how does a LL going to a property every month benefit the tenant? It stands out to me as a way of avoiding tax.

And I notice you haven't bothered to comment on the advice I gave the OP. The question about the tax was just part of other comments.

My opinion is just as relevant as yours @BurnedToast. And I never said you couldn't post what you wanted, I said trying to have a dig at the OP for not paying tax was unnecessary and off topic.

I agree with the other advice you gave, so why would I comment on that? It doesn't mean I don't think the dig about tax status is unpleasant.

I am referring to the fact you said my question about the tax was irrelevant to the thread. What I'm saying is this is a chat forum, so your views on what should or shouldn't be on this thread is irrelevant.

Anyway, I won't be engaging with you any further on this. I'm not going to have an ongoing row with a nobody keyboard warrior on the Internet as I've made my point.

I wouldn’t evict on the basis of irregular payments. As long as I have 1 full months rent every month I’m fairly relaxed. My tenant worked building contracts so would often pay when he got paid.

That said I wouldn’t be going to collect it either. It would need to be a bank transfer.

And as I've said @BurnedToast, my views are just as relevant as yours. As you say, this is a chat forum where anyone can post what they like. Ergo everything is just as relevant (or irrelevant).

I didn't realise we were rowing, I thought we were having a reasonably polite disagreement. I'm sorry to have disturbed your Sunday morning to such an extent.

OP, if there is any chance this might turn into a formal dispute between tenant and landlord, do make sure you have done all your duties to the letter. So that there's an up to date and properly signed contract, a current Gas Safety Cert (if you have had), the deposit is correctly lodged in a scheme, you've attended to maintenance issues and crucially that the tenant has been correctly advised of where the deposit money is held in a formal notification process. Also worth getting electrics looked at and signed off by a proper contractor.

Because if it does get to the point that you want to issue a s.21 for whatever reason, any failures on these scores mean the tenant can fight the notice to quit in court. It's an expensive business. And there are many no-win no-fee lawyers angling for that kind of work.

@FluffyHippo I have to agree with you. A LL should not rely on rent to pay a mortgage.
OP how do you not know if your tenant works? All sounds a bit suss with you taking cash. Have you protected her deposit?

&don't forget the information on renting form too. If tenant was renting from some housing associations or had a mortgage should would find herself being chased quite aggressively (paperwork wise & some HA evict quite quickly & make really nasty ll - including bad maintenance) op has stated that not only is tenant late but she pays in dribs & drabs - this sounds like someone getting hb - I would ask her & if she is ask her to get it paid direct BEFORE things get worse &come winter & winter bills they probably will. Than if she doesn't top up& gets behind further you will at least have some money coming in

@Juells

Love the way you put professional in inverted commas. It’s easy to do a and judge someone for being ok but not happy to regularly accept late payments. If you knew how costly it is to change tenants, you wouldn’t be advising op to change tenants so quickly.

Yeh it’s annoying and I’ve had tenants like this. In fact I currently have a tenant, who did it regularly in the 12 months after he split from his wife. I didn’t insist he paid interest on the money, that would be ridiculous. He was struggling to pay as is. He looks after the house really well, once paid half his rent 3 weeks late then the other half 6 weeks late because he had to fly unexpectedly to his home country, another few times paid a week and a half or so late. Currently up to date and no issues in the last 6 months so I imagine he’s now back on track. He’s from a culture, where he’s probably sending his parents money back every month and I can imagine he had to do a lot of juggling.

Another couple with kids stopped paying. The woman’s parents were guarantors and subsequently forced to pay. I couldn’t in all good conscience let the situation continue. Equally I didn’t want to see children homeless so asked the agent to agree with the parents they’d take the family in. I then served notice.

But hey, let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

In answer to several questions. YES I am paying tax on the rent, she pays me cash which is her choice and I am, of course, going to accept payment in any way I can get it!

A 'hobby landlord' I might be but that is of no concern to any of the people who've suggested it. It's up to me if I choose to try and supplement income with having a property to let.
I have been very accommodating to my tenant for the last 8 months, and I felt terribly sorry for her after the horrible time she had (I won't go into too much detail but it involved police, an arrest and ultimately a court case- which I have to say she dropped because "he's good with the kids") She is a very sweet girl and so, yes I gave her the option to pay monthly so she could decide if she wanted to remain at the house. Around February she confirmed that yes she does want to stay, but never said that it would be a struggle to pay now that bf has gone.

I have NEVER had any text from her prior to the 1st of each month to say "really sorry, I know it's due but I'm having a problem raising the rent, so please could I alter it". It's always ME who has to remind her of the date and typically a few days prior, I will send her a "it's that time again, please can you make sure it's deposited" I then get no reply (although I can see the text has been delivered and read) so then after the due date I'll send another, or will try to call....she never picks up. I do not want to evict her, it's a faff and, although not my problem, I would hate myself if I did serve her the notice.

Anyway, following my husbands email to her last night, she texted me today and once more it's full of excuses (no apology) saying she will try to get it in to my bank tomorrow to pay it, but she has to wait in for the tumble dryer man who's coming to fix it.....she then went on to say, if I was around this afternoon, I could stop off to get it.

I wasn't around and so I didn't go. I simply replied to say "I was not home today, please pay Augusts rent immediately and set up a direct debit to begin on 1st September" She has not replied.

I worked in a bank for years and know that if you're just one day late on payments then you'll have a late fee, rent should be no different. Incidentally, she too worked in banking when she began the lease so will also know how it works.
Eight months of her taking the piss is too long and re-reading what I've written here, I've been very nice, too nice perhaps.

Oh, and if she has a cannabis farm in the loft, so be it - just pay the shittin' rent from the profits!!