gcse results for university

[morpurgoo]

To ask what a strong set of GCSE results would be to get into a Russell Group university? Obviously a string of 9s would be great but would a mix of 7s, 8s and a couple of 9s be sufficient? DD is going into Y11 and wondering and things have changed since my day in University

@morpurgoo no, in my day you could not take a levels unless you’d passed a certain amount of GCSEs- they are stepping stones

Unless there had been extenuating circumstances you wouldn't have been able to progress to A levels at DD's school either. She took her GCSEs in 2016 when they were still graded A* - C, and to take an A level the student had to have achieved a B in that subject (unless it was a new subject like psychology, where they would have had to achieve a B in English)

You probably want to be looking at 8s and 9s for subjects related to what they want to study at uni, plus 7/8/9 at Maths and English

Titchy- predicted grades are an awful indicator of A Level grades. In 2016 some research was done that showed that only 16% of predicted grades were correct. 73% did worse than predicted by their teachers.

Their GCSE grades are definitely looked at by some RG unis. I’m also a Head of Sixth Form and have been told this by admissions tutors at more than one university. Others have said that they don’t care as long as they have the minimum standard in Maths and English. Even within universities there can be differences depending on which subject you are applying for.

Better GCSE grades will definitely be an advantage for some RG unis.

So if someone failed every single GCSE except English and Maths and then they did well in A levels they wouldn’t be considered any different to someone who did the same at A levels but really good at Gcse level too?

I'm in Scotland so national 5's and highers rather then GCSE and A levels, however, if you don't pass the basic (nat5/GCSE) you don't progress to the higher leaves anyway. So no, it isn't something g that could happen here.

It is wrong to say that GCSE's are just stepping stones. It generally depends on what course you want to study at University - any university, not just the RG ones.
Many courses have strict GCSE requirements (as well as A Level) and you would definitely be wise to look at what might be required when considering what Uni to apply for.
If a course had a high level of applicants all with similar A Level grades then GCSE's would be taken into account when making offers.
The other most important thing to consider is work experience which is held in very high regard in relation to Uni applications.
There are suggestions that GCSE grades will be given much more weight soon over and above predicted A Level grades.
All requirements are available on the individual University websites and generally speaking, if specific GCSE's are not on there, then none are required.
Taken from the Loughborough Uni website to study Business Economics and Finance:--

"Majority A/B (7/6) grades at GCSE including minimum Grade B/6 in Maths and English Language

Agree that medicine courses commonly have GCSE minimum requirements. My husband found himself telling a number of students in an open day queue recently that, no, if you don't have a 6 in English you will not be considered for the course. (that requirement is very clear on their website, he was surprised how many were asking)

You probably want to be looking at 8s and 9s for subjects related to what they want to study at uni, plus 7/8/9 at Maths and English

I don't believe many STEM courses want 7/8/9 for English or non-'numerate' courses need those grades in maths. Admissions tutors understand that applicants may have asymmetric abilities.

Many courses have strict GCSE requirements

I'd have said 'a small proportion' (other than maths and English and relevant subjects if not taken at A level.

All requirements are available on the individual University websites and generally speaking, if specific GCSE's are not on there, then none are required.

Yup. The OP and her DD should take a look at a few.

I went to a Russell group Uni and only got 6 GCSEs (all at c and above and including maths and English) due to illness. Predicted 3 A’s at A level and that was what mattered.

At this point has your DC got any specific courses in mind and any particular universities?

Those who claim GCSE results are irrelevant are wrong. ( 25 years of Secondary School teaching here). My school is pretty academic and the majority go to Russell Group unis. Given that the offers are made on the basis of GCSE results and A level predictions, and that AS has now gone GCSE grades can be a significant factor in whether a place is offered on the more competitive courses.

OK, just for my own clarification (my ds is going into yr10 & these new grades still baffle the hell out of me) surely if you failed your gsces you wouldn't be doing a levels anyway so they wouldn't be looking at them just a levels and what is a Russel group???
Very sorry if I come across stupid

Bat queen-
Unless there were serious mitigating circumstances in the reference a student with 6 grade 4s at GCSE but AAA a Level predictions isn’t going to get the same offers as one with 9 or 10 GCSEs at grades 7-9 and the same A Level predictions.
It just doesn’t work like that now. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they won’t get any offers. Some RGs might make them an offer, especially for less competitive courses (like Languages) but they are unlikely to get a clean sweep of offers from top unis for competitive courses IME.
A big difference now is often the type of offer they get. Even RGs are now making unconditional offers to a lot of the kids with excellent GCSEs to try and get them to “firm” their unis. (Other unis are giving them out like they are smarties. I don’t like it but it’s how it is now). They don’t have much to lose by making an AAA offer to the kid with weaker GCSE grades for a course that they struggle to fill. If they don’t get the grades then they don’t get in on results day. But the ones applying with clean sweeps of grade 7s and above are now getting unconditional offers, sometimes with financial incentives attached, from some quite prestigious institutions. It’s causing schools problems as kids who have accepted unconditional offers are doing worse at A Level than those who haven’t. It’s become a bit of a nightmare, if I’m honest.

You probably want to be looking at 8s and 9s for subjects related to what they want to study at uni, plus 7/8/9 at Maths and English

No you don't. 10 or so grade 5s are fine for the vast majority of courses at the vast majority of the RG.

predicted grades are an awful indicator of A Level grades

I am aware of that. But they are still largely the only factor in determining the offer an applicant gets.

Given that the offers are made on the basis of GCSE results and A level predictions, and that AS has now gone GCSE grades can be a significant factor in whether a place is offered on the more competitive courses.

I'll repeat it again, the vast majority of courses at the vast majority of universities, including the RG, don't give a shiny shit about GCSEs as long as M and E and half a dozen others are there. (In fact it's mostly admin folk making the offers not admissions tutors.) I know heads of sixth and teachers all like to say to their kids that they NEED to get decent grades to not screw up their future (and yes as a parent I also told my lazy git of a son to pull his finger out - his average GCSE grade was B, he had 5 offers, 4 from RG) but in reality, it's not necessary at all for most. There are exceptions of course, and if anyone is in any doubt - CHECK UNIVERSITY WEBSITES!

Sabine - we're likely to see a significant reduction in unconditional offers - OfS does NOT like it.

So if someone failed every single GCSE except English and Maths and then they did well in A levels they wouldn’t be considered any different to someone who did the same at A levels but really good at Gcse level too?

Someone failing all their GCSEs wouldn’t get onto an A Level course anyway.

The UCAS website clearly shows what the entry requirements are for every university course. I would check that, OP, rather than accepting info on mumsnet. If you want something solid to motivate DC going into yr 11 though, just point out that the better they do at GCSE, the more options they will have post-16.

Sparkly yes you are right, there is a minimum requirement to get onto A levels which varies from school to school. Some DC go off and do BTEC which were coursework but have now changed I think to include some exams.

This explains about Russell Group Universities here As it says there are some good Universities who have chosen not to be a part of it but it has become shorthand for what are seen a the more ‘solid universities’. It depends a lot on what course it is though so that needs to enter the equation an as Sabine said some courses are hard to fill eg. Languages which is how my DD managed to get onto to her course, along with not no for an answer and a lot of hard work.

Obviously name of the game is to do as well at GCSE as possible as you do get ruled out of some courses at this point potentially but these are usually the more competitive courses. It’s not uncommon also to see some DC not do particularly well at GCSE then come into their own at A level with a bit more maturity and the benefit of being able to focus on what they enjoy and are best at.

Not being at a RG university can be fine. My friend’s DD has to take an extra year resitting at A Level, is at a non RG university and had a bit of a thing about it but just completed a year at Microsoft and landed a job after she finishes her final year at University. Reading MN can be a bit anxiety inducing at times for those of us with DC that aren’t as high flying as some but it’s a great source of info as You get insight into how a lot of schools work which can be really helpful.

As Eviltwins says have a read of prospectuses and push the better results gives more choice aspect, unless they are really anxious about them in which case it might be better to go the one step at a time route.

As the person in charge of raising aspirations at my school, I took 20 Year 10 students to Oxford uni for the day. They were told, in no uncertain terms, that GCSE grades were very important, especially now there are no AS levels. They did say that it's contextual and they will take into account the school you come from (so from my school someone is likely to get a lower offer as we are state school that is not performing well). They also said that they were looking for 7's and 8's at GCSE across the board, but that 9's were not necessary.

Most sixth forms seem to require a 6 or above GCSE in the subject you want to do at A level, some subjects 7 or above. So if you failed French for example it’s unlikely you’d be able to study it at A level, and if you did presumably your predicted grade would be low.

Most courses at most universities * are now giving out offers automatically to any applicant who meets the GCSE requirements (as stated on the course page on the university website) and whose A-level predicted grades imply that they're likely to meet the offer. This has been going on for at least a couple of years. Other than those applying to Oxbridge, all of DS's friends got offers from everywhere they applied to.

So in the hypothetical scenarios of applicant with AAA predicted grades and lower GCSE results vs applicant with AAA predicted grades and higher GCSE grades, they would give offers to both.

• Not including a small number of courses like Medicine and Veterinary Medicine and a small number of institutions like Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Imperial, LSE, Durham etc.

These threads, honestly! There’s ALWAYS someone boasting about their own exam results - pretty irrelevant to the question the OP’s asking, as the exam grading system has changed and course requirements may also.

I think GCSES are important in general, my stepson left uni wit a first. Competition for graduate schemes he applied for was so bad that they were looking at Alevel and GCSE results to try and pick their candidates, clearly wanting those who had consistently high grades.

I think the example of failed GCSEs save for English and Maths is an unrealistic one because the govt. target for GCSEs in schools is 5 GCSEs including English and Maths. Therefore, i doubt you’ll get as far as sixth form in the first place. Almost (if not all) all sixth forms require 5 GCSEs min.

Titchy- that’s looking increasingly unlikely. I can’t see the number of unconditional offers reducing unless universities are forced to stop.
They rose again this year. schoolsweek.co.uk/unconditional-offers-continue-to-rise-despite-government-intervention/

I know Nottingham have said that they will be stopping them but I went to an event for teachers at another RG Uni this summer and someone asked them if they are planning to make unconditional offers next year and they said yes. The guy seemed to imply that he’d quite like the government to ban them but, whilst they are allowed, it’s basically a marketplace and they’d lose out if they stopped making unconditional offers whilst other universities carry on.

You can check freedom of Info requests for actual GCSEs that people obtained yet got on their courses. You'll find a sprinkling of Cs & Ds (so I guess 4s & 5s, now?) for people at Oxbridge or on medicine courses. The successful applicants don't all have amazing grades.