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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that vegan/soy based formula is not the right thing to feed a growing baby

139 replies

Wingingthiswholething · 02/08/2019 16:36

Obviously in an ideal world breast milk is the better option. Some people chose not to BF, some people can't, some people struggle with milk production so mix feed. All fine. I prefer a fed baby.

But I've recently become aware that vegan formula is a thing. It is dairy free and plant based.

Surely this isn't enough to feed growing babies?

I don't really know a lot about it so am going to have a read out of curiosity, but I'm not remotely convinced that it is...well...a good idea. Same as feeding a dog a vegan diet.
Fair enough have your own dietary preferences, but is it wise to push that on an infant?

Aware this might be a triggering post. And I understand why some people don't like the dairy industry. Just very surprised that this is fed to babies.

OP posts:
Lottle · 02/08/2019 20:44

YANBU. Soy is only recommended in the case of an allergy. Nhs v keen to stress discussing with the gp before switching, presumably as dairy is better. However I have read about health issues with soya and dairy but these reports were not focused on babies. I'm veggie, don't eat fish and drink soya milk. My son will be offered fish and given cows milk after we stop bf.

Teacakeandalatte · 02/08/2019 20:57

why cows specifically
Have you ever tried to milk a cat? Or herd one for that matter.

aliensprig · 02/08/2019 21:03

Have you ever tried to milk a cat?

😂

Has anyone ever managed this and lived?

I think it makes perfect sense to have started giving cows milk to babies

Yes, makes perfect sense to rip a calf away from its mother so that a completely different species can have the excretion from her mammary glands. 🤦🏻‍♀️

moobar · 02/08/2019 21:10

Well I agree with the OP to the extent that

If someone decides not to BF but makes a decision to go straight to soya without any other basis than a lifestyle decision, then I do not think that is in the babies best interests.

But I would imagine that to be a very small group of people. If that is who the OP was aiming this at?

Oysterbabe · 02/08/2019 21:44

I'm in the camp that feels more comfortable with milk intended for a baby mammal, even though it's not a human one, than soy.

PickAChew · 02/08/2019 21:47

Formula is pretty much a composition of various proteins, amino acids, sugars, oligosaccharides fats and nutrients, anyhow. It's so heavily processed, in order to make it digestible and nutritionally sound that where they come from is almost irrelevant, save for the allergy aspect.

progestermoan · 02/08/2019 21:59

I’ve always wondered , probably because all my dc were cmpa babies and it’s so so common now to have an allergy to milk why all formulas aren’t hydrolysed. Would that help I wonder I know for severe cmpa an aa formula is needed but if all formulas to start with were hydrolysed would it be better for such immature digestive systems. They are modifying it so much anyway to make it suitable for babies why not go a bit further
Cost shouldn’t be an issue as there are already partially and extensively hydrolysed formulas available at virtually the same price (less in some cases) than ‘regular’ formula

Teaandcrunchynut · 02/08/2019 22:38

In case anyone still reading ...

For unbiased evidence based information on formula milk, visit 'first steps nutrition' website.

Formula for cows milk protein allergy is extensively hydrolysed (milk proteins broken down into tiny fragments so as not to trigger reaction).
Soya based formula is not recommended due to plant based oestrogen which, when fed as the sole diet, can potentially affect a growing child's reproductive system.

I'll say no more. Too much emotion involved in formula milk. But IMO not enough knowledge about facts. First steps nutrition fully recommended.

AuntieGT · 02/08/2019 22:44

Yep. I’d second that. First steps nutrition is a brilliant impartial charity that has great fact sheets on all the different formulas.

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 02/08/2019 23:15

Yes, makes perfect sense to rip a calf away from its mother so that a completely different species can have the excretion from her mammary glands.

Well, since I was talking about the historical background to giving babies milk, I doubt that would be what happened, since cattle were domesticated for meat and hides long before dairy.

I would imagine it was more along the lines of goats/sheep/cows were being kept. Selective breeding for smaller size/docile temperaments made them easier to handle. Perhaps a woman died in childbirth or had no milk and nobody else was nursing at the time. People knew that you could express milk from a human breast, and that their stock fed their young on milk. They would also know that they could suckle multiple young. So it was the nearest option, and possible to get safely, and babies drank it and survived and grew, rather than dying.

I'm not defending modern farming practices (or even talking about them!), but I really don't think the historical use of it is as opaque or ridiculous as some posters are trying to make out.

Veterinari · 02/08/2019 23:25

@Wingingthiswholething
Just a suggestion, but you might want to think about researching/informing yourself before posting an uninformed viewpoint on a polarising issue of which you have no knowledge.

I have assumed that plant based formula may not be enough for the rapidly growing bodies of a tiny baby and that feeding them this purely due to personal dietary choices may not be the best thing for them.

Which is a massive and inaccurate assumption, and which is totally corrected by a swift google search. So why not do that rather than try and start an argumentative thread implying that mothers who don’t agree with your feeding choices are somehow substandard. Perhaps educate yourself?

HiJenny35 · 02/08/2019 23:50

So let's get this straight, you think it's fine obviously for children with allergies but disagree when it's a parents choice due to not wanting their child to drink the milk of another mammal which wasn't produced for them and is full of chemicals. Oh come on this is literally a "vegans are wrong" post. You force dairy onto your child, my bothers are both vegan and hate the fact that they were forced to eat it as children when the knew no better.

Original poster
Wingingthiswholething · 03/08/2019 06:22

. So why not do that rather than try and start an argumentative thread implying that mothers who don’t agree with your feeding choices are somehow substandard. Perhaps educate yourself?

At no point have I attempted to be argumentative. And as posters have said, soy alternatives aren't recommended for under 6 months unless there is a medical requirement e.g. allergies. So my view point that you shouldn't feed a tiny baby soy alternatives for no other reason than personal dietary choices still stands.

OP posts:
Pinkout · 03/08/2019 07:46

It’s weird you think a baby needs the milk of another mammal to thrive. Many babies have a dairy intolerance so need the soy based formulas, they are equally as nutritional as dairy formula.

Yeahnahmum · 03/08/2019 07:50

I don't really know a lot about it

Haha but still starting a thread on it.
Also jeez so many babies out there with a dairy allergy!! Why do you think non diary formula exist?

Laughable really.

WatchingTheWheels85 · 03/08/2019 07:57

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies. But I wasn't aware of a vegan formula in the uk (I'm a lifelong vegan with vegan children). The soy based ones have vitamin d derived from sheeps wool I believe which doesn't make them vegan.

Chocolatedaim · 03/08/2019 07:58

None of my family (DH or DD) have dairy allergies, but the thought of cows milk really turns my stomach, I just really dislike the taste of milk. So we have Oat Milk, Almond Milk and Coconut milk at home.
Dd 4 has a very varied diet and isn’t at a loss for not having cows milk.

I never have her Follow On milk either as she has always enjoyed food and I felt she was better off obtaining nutrients from meals as opposed to formula.

The only alternative milk you have to be careful of is Rice milk, because of the arsenic. (Apparently, I’ve never had rice milk myself and don’t know much about it!)

dementedpixie · 03/08/2019 07:59

There are more appropriate formula milks for dairy intolerant children than soya formula. It is not the first choice alternative

AgentJohnson · 03/08/2019 08:02

*I said I was going to read up on it.

Ignorant as fuck.*

The problem about your posts is that admit not knowing enough but are willing to broadcast an opinion based on your own ignorance.

Magicmama92 · 03/08/2019 08:06

Some babies have cmpa which means they cant have cows milk. So some alternate formulas have either coconut or soya. Its perfecty safe and my baby who's been on a coconut alternative is happy and healthy and doing well. If they have cmpa they have to have something. It's not always becouse people are wanting to be vegan :)

dementedpixie · 03/08/2019 08:08

Up to 6 months old, soya would not be the first choice alternative though. I've never heard of a coconut formula

Magicmama92 · 03/08/2019 08:10

Also I forgot to add after 6 months you can cook with oat soya or coconut milk and get yogurts and desserts. Eventually they like you to put them on soya growing up milk as its closest to cows milk in fats. But a lot of babies with cmpa can react to soya so have oat milk instead. :) sorry for posting another comment I cant edit my above one.

Magicmama92 · 03/08/2019 08:16

Its not really about what's first choice its which milk suits your baby. Some can react to coconut so then they have to have the soya ones. Theres quite a few different milks and one of my friends babies tried several before finding one he was ok with. :)

TwistyTop · 03/08/2019 08:18

@TheHandsOfNeilBuchanan you have the best username on here! Grin

Anyway, I have done some very basic research into why cats like to eat things that aren't necessarily good for them. This was prompted by my discovery that my cat absolutely adores to eat my ear wax, to the point where she will choose it over a cat treat. Don't ask how I figured this out Blush

Apparently a cat's sense of smell is unusually keen, approaching that of a dog's, but their sense of taste is very dull, and the two don't work together in the same way that they do with humans (ie when we think we enjoy the taste of something it's mostly due to the delicious smell). So they can theoretically eat stuff that tastes like crap, so long as it smells good to them.

Cats love anything that is rich in animal protein, and will seek it out above other food sources. They can smell it very well. So if the cat smells cow's milk, which is obviously super dense in animal proteins, it's senses go "oh my god! This is amazing! I need lots of this to nourish myself". It doesn't matter that the milk isn't good for them. It's the same with earwax, because earwax is mostly dead skin cells. Lots of animal protein, so they think it's delicious even though it presumably tastes vile and is not good for them.

Now excuse me whilst I go and throw up.

Propertyofhood · 03/08/2019 09:49

The thing about cows milk is that, at some point in history, people (or babies or whatever) must have started drinking it and been thriving rather than becoming ill for it to take off as a thing, otherwise they would have stopped drinking it and branded it an unsuitable nourishment source? So it can't be that bad?

But then I suppose in some cultures dairy isn't a thing - is that because they just couldn't tolerate it at some point in history or because they just never really gave it a go as a food source in the first place?

It's quite interesting really.