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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that this person is not a suitable teacher

89 replies

MsJRMEsq · 31/07/2019 15:37

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-49177014

A teacher got drunk at a school's end of year prom, told male pupils the girls were "gagging for it" and threatened to "knock out" the school principal, a panel heard.

He told the panel he heard him say: "Lads, you need to go where this lot are for the after party, they are gagging for it", referring to the female pupils.

OP posts:
katiedoc · 31/07/2019 17:02

The bit that concerns me the most is the comments about girls being gagging for it and encouraging the boys to seek them out for that reason. I think that is far more worrying that the alcohol which was stupid.

GrammarTeacher · 31/07/2019 17:06

Yup, this is exactly the attitude that teachers need to be discouraging not modelling!

Original poster
MsJRMEsq · 31/07/2019 17:10

Quite, it's a serious attitude problem.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 31/07/2019 17:19

I don't think anyone would say his attitude and actions were anything other than utterly unprofessional.

The question is whether that means someone should lose their career for life off the back of it. His name will be muck (rightly so), schools will rightly be reluctant to employ him in the short term as he has shown terrible judgement. He rightly has had a slap across the wrists for the situation and this will follow him.

Do I think he should be prohibited from teaching at 40 because he was a total idiot at 29? No.

GrammarTeacher · 31/07/2019 17:21

This goes against several of the teaching standards we are held to though. I would expect at the very least he would have to undergo some extra training.

lyralalala · 31/07/2019 17:24

Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher. Someone who thinks it's appropriate to get drunk at the prom and refer to his female pupils in a sexual manner with the gagging for it comment isn't cut out to be a teacher imo.

herculepoirot2 · 31/07/2019 17:25

I don't think teachers should go to prom while there are pupils around with camera phones to capture their every word.

Nothing I have ever said in the presence of pupils would cause me any worry if caught on camera. 🤷🏻‍♀️

LolaSmiles · 31/07/2019 17:30

herculepoirot2
Me neither.
I've also been in group photos at prom and our students go round getting photos in their finery with staff.
We had leavers photos with staff when we left, just they were on a disposable camera. I saw my leaving photos when I last moved house. Staff had a drink, we had a drink (6th form) and I have lovely memories of the evening. Why would I not do likewise with my students?

Original poster
MsJRMEsq · 31/07/2019 17:31

Nothing I have ever said in the presence of pupils would cause me any worry if caught on camera. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Exactly, and that is what thousands of teachers up and down the country manage to do successfully.

If a colleague behaved as this individual did then I'd expect them to lose their job and not be able to teach again. It is not an insignificant mistake.

OP posts:
GrammarTeacher · 31/07/2019 17:31

Same @herculepoirot2. Prom is a school based event and you have to behave as such. I have been invited by my cast to the aftershow party of productions I have directed. I thank them kindly and then point out that it will put quite the dampener on things.
I've been to a few Leavers' Celebrations in my time (Year 13 in our case). They're lovely. However, I have no desire to get drunk at them let alone say offensive things. Why would I?
Some teachers do. They are not respected.

herculepoirot2 · 31/07/2019 17:33

And that’s what we’re aiming for. But I believe in second chances. Not third, but second, except in cases of really egregious stuff. He made a bad mistake, but maybe he can learn from it. I don’t know.

feelingverylazytoday · 31/07/2019 17:37

He drank too much at the prom and made a prat out of himself.
He should be read the riot act, bollocked, and everyone moves on.
Seriously, just get a fucking grip people.

GrammarTeacher · 31/07/2019 17:42

To be honest, with the coverage this case has received I can't see him working in teaching any time soon.

Rainuntilseptember15 · 31/07/2019 17:43

Really, even a video of you putting down some cool moves on the dance floor would be pretty embarrassing on YouTube!
I am glad there are teachers happy to go to prom, as it won't ever be me Smile

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 31/07/2019 17:47

Peer on peer abuse is a massive issue in secondary schools right now with worrying levels of sexual harassment being reported. So the last thing any school needs is a Teacher who describes his female students as "gagging for it" acting as a role model for teenage boys. I understand those saying it's a 'one off', but making comments that sexualise children is simply not acceptable, drunk or not and it does call into question his suitability to work in the profession. He showed a serious lack of judgement and professionalism getting so drunk at a school event in the first place, then went on to make inappropriate, sexually suggestive comments about female students- I find it hard to believe that someone who could make such an appalling error of judgement once hasn't done it before or will do it again.

GrammarTeacher · 31/07/2019 17:47

These days I'm old and boring. I go to the dinner if invited (and only form tutors are) and go home. Before children intended to go to the pub the year 13s went to on the way to the venue with a few other teachers. We'd sit together and the students would pop over and say hi.
I've done the actual party earlier in my career. And it was lovely. I also like doing the Christmas ball. It's an alcohol free party as it's open to year 12 too. They have a LOT of fun. We were surprised when we introduced it how many year 13s came too.

herculepoirot2 · 31/07/2019 17:49

Rainuntilseptember15

Embarrassment is a subjective term. I don’t dance. I don’t care if other people do and there is nothing inappropriate about it.

SmileEachDay · 31/07/2019 17:57

His attitude towards the female students makes me really angry. How dare he comment about them like that.

Challenging casually misogynistic attitudes is something I do all the time with the boys at school - the idea that a teacher sold reinforce them is awful.

LolaSmiles · 31/07/2019 18:00

If a colleague behaved as this individual did then I'd expect them to lose their job and not be able to teach again. It is not an insignificant mistake.
It's not insignificant which is why it got to a professional conduct panel. The fact it's serious has been acknowledged. A formal warning and being highly unlikely to get work any time soon is right.

Never teaching again is harsh for this and is a comparable punishment to people who have got into illegal relationships with students.

He has absolutely shown lack of professionalism. Is it enough to suggest he is a danger to children for life and that at 40 years old he should be barred from teaching because he was unprofessional at 29? I'm not so sure.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 31/07/2019 18:00

Drinking on its own I wouldn't have an issue with. However, his misogynistic attitudes aren't because he's drunk, they're because he feels that's ok.

That is why I wouldn't want him influencing children in any way, because casual misogyny is a huge, damaging and really awful problem.

RaggeddeeAnn · 31/07/2019 18:05

He was drunk. Lots of people behave completely atrociously when drunk. Yes, he was an immature arse but this shouldn't mean the end of his whole career. By that token, one might expect our current prime minister should never have got the job given that he has had a drunken row at his home necessitating a police visit and was it the current minister in charge of brexit who admitted using cocaine? If the people in charge of our country are allowed to fuck up one would expect it is reasonable for a secondary school teacher to get inappropriately drunk and live to tell the tale.

EXACTLY RIGHT! We can’t everyone to be angels and saints just to hold down a job. It is human to fuck up. Besides, if we make unemployable every idiot who makes a mistake, we will eventually have 99% of the population on benefits! Which would collapse civilisation....

LolaSmiles · 31/07/2019 18:07

InTheHeatofLisbon
The thing is, he's not the only bloke out there who holds misogynistic views. He's just been unprofessional and stupid enough to express them (most likely in a pathetic attempt to appear cool to the lads, which is why they're they type of staff few colleagues and students respect).

However, I'm not entirely convinced this man is any more of a threat than any other ridiculous 'I'm down with the kids, look at my banter' male teacher in their 20s-mid 30s.

He's been an idiot. What he said was disgusting and there's no place for it. Is he likely to be a danger in the classroom that warrants being struck off for life? Probably not.

RaggeddeeAnn · 31/07/2019 18:09

“but making comments that sexualise children”
Calm down. He was talking to 16yr old boys about 16yr old girls who are legally of the age of consent for sexual activity.

Personally, I think having a TV show depict a 12 yr old making out with a 13yr old is far worse but apparently everyone thinks it’s ok.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 31/07/2019 18:10

The thing is, he's not the only bloke out there who holds misogynistic views. He's just been unprofessional and stupid enough to express them (most likely in a pathetic attempt to appear cool to the lads, which is why they're they type of staff few colleagues and students respect).

I agree, he won't be the only one.

My job means that my social media, my public opinions are under scrutiny due to the registration I hold with the relevant body. I have to conduct myself professionally at work at all times, or there is a very real risk I would be struck off.

I expect other professionals to have had the same warnings, and abide by the rules, especially when it's influencing the opinions of teenagers.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 31/07/2019 18:11

By that token, one might expect our current prime minister should never have got the job

It's not a race to the fucking bottom! He shouldn't have got the damn job. But when you're a member of the old boys club you can be forgiven for being a racist, misogynistic, drunken lout.b