To be horrified at how decimated the NHS is

[Bunnyfuller]

Just had a phone call that has shocked me.

I’ve had various heart problems/emergencies since the end of April. A result of which means I’m on 2 anticoagulants. Almost 2 weeks ago as part of some other work on my heart I had an echocardiogram. It needed to be quite brutal to get the right view, they were looking for a leak!

So this (with the anticoagulants) has caused a massive bruise on the underside of my left boob. And there’s a very hard, lumpy sausage shaped thing close to chest wall, under the bruise.

GP is fairly sure it’s part of the bruise, cardiac nurses not so sure, so referred to the urgent referral Breast Clinic. My GP books it via an online system and I was in for tomorrow, following seeing GP yesterday.

Just had hospital call me. They have a new booking system, which isn’t working properly and in fact I do not have an appointment tomorrow as there’s no clinic tomorrow. Then they told me I would hear from them in 6-8 weeks.

Is this the norm now? I’m not especially worried for myself - I’m sure it’s just some epic hematoma, and nothing like a heart attack to change your reaction to health incidents!

I’m not blaming the NHS (the miscommunication is a bit frustrating but I’m having worse from BT), but am so floored at something that was such a benefit to patients, physically and mentally (you go away with the ok fairly swiftly) has been eroded to such a degree by this government. Maybe Boris will cough up for me to go private?!

4-6 weeks was standard for me when I had an “urgent referral” to breast clinic.

Standard wait time really.

I dont think 'decimated' is the correct word for an IT malfunction.

I thought the urgent referral was within 2 weeks?

Decimated because they have a backlog, a waiting list and no capacity to run to intended clinics. Suspicious lumps should be seen within 2 weeks (remember GP telling me yesterday actually).

Cancer pathway is 2 weeks- no way should you be waiting that long.

My mum had a suspected mild heart attack. Six months for an "urgent" consultant visit.

Hospitals have to see suspected cancer referrals within two weeks, even if they were slightly off target I doubt it would be 6 weeks.
I'd ring the GP. If it really is that bad then maybe she could refer you to a different hospital?

The waiting lists are terrible for some things. Not helped by doing things the way things have always been done.

Dd last year had a positive blood test for coeliac disease, was vomiting every day. Doing a levels and too unwell most days to go to school. You have to keep eating gluten until you have an endoscopy and it was a six month wait for the consultant appt to give the go ahead for an endoscopy and then a further wait for the endoscopy.. They won't diagnose on blood results alone even though European paed guidelines say they should. They cant/won't authorise an endoscopy until she's seen the consultant even though everyone knows the consultant will look at the blood tests and say "she needs an endoscopy". So it's a waste of the consultants time!

I rang every hospital within a 90 min drive and same wait times everywhere. Rang my GP and the consultant's secretary and said how unwell she was....could it be sped up as I genuinely didn't think she would be alive in six months. No, nothing could be done.

Sure enough she collapsed unconscious. Chronic malnourishment, dangerously low potassium levels and other deranged blood results. She looked anorexic and in fact they queried that in a&e. Ten day admission to hospital, IV fluids, drugs, endoscopy, MRi.

Cost the nhs far more money than if they had done an earlier endoscopy. But what can they do? Part of the issue is lack of staff.....there aren't enough doctors to see people. The nhs is losing staff at a terrible rate. People don't want to be doctors and nurses. They're not paid enough and the conditions aren't great. It's going to get worse.

Urgent ref is 2 week cancer pathway.

Thanks 🙂

I thought it was 2 weeks. GP rang me, also horrified and said something about the hospital being in complete crisis, and the IT issues were just compounding things. Can’t recruit the clinicians to populate an adequate service.

She referred me to another hospital and I’m in next Weds.

@EverardDigby (interesting name?!) as a cardiac patient I can sympathise - I think unless you’re mid-actual heart attack there can be waits. The big (full artery blockage) heart attacks tend to cause a more immediate and visible issue, and in that case there’s no wait - the ecg shows it in progress and it’s a fast blue light ride into your nearest Cath lab and straight onto the table. When I had my heart attack in April I after they sorted everything out I realised I still had my slippers on from when paramedics took me!

Such a shame the NHS is buckling, like all public services.

@MadamePompadour you were advised badly. To do the gluten challenge for diagnosis you do need to have gluten in your diet for so many weeks before they do the endoscopy but it’s certainly not months. Once the waiting times became apparent your dd could have been gluten free till an appointment date was issued.

YANBU. Unfortunately with Johnson and his ilk running things it's likely to get much worse before it gets better. I'm a former HCP who left the NHS some time ago but friends who still work on the frontline are all seem incredibly stressed out and several have told me that they feel standards of care have dropped to the point that patient safety is compromised.

It's pretty bad... 8 months for a podiatrist appointment and 2 years for an orthodontist here. Waiting list for childrens counselling is 12m+.

Certainly worth considering in private healthcare.

There's also a major issue at the moment with tax/pensions for consultants. At present all services are propped up by consultants doing extra 'waiting list' clinics on top of their usual contracted hours. The pension tax situation is now such that if you tip over an earning threshold you are suddenly getting massive 5 figure tax bills on your pension contributions (which is money you've never actually had). So most consultants are refusing extra clinics at the moment and some are even reducing their normal hours. After all would you pay to go to work?
(this is on top of the massive underfunding from government over the last decade or so)

That's awful. I am a cardiac patient, already had 3 MIs and a bypass. I've had my current emergency cardiology appt cancelled 3 times since April. Me t date is August

*cornettoninja you need to eat gluten for a minimum of six weeks before the endoscopy. But you don't get six weeks notice of an appt. We had also said we would take any last minute cancellation.

Just before she collapsed we'd made the decision not to pursue a formal diagnosis as she couldn't tolerate it anymore so had actually been gluten free for a few days. But turns out her villi were so badly damaged she'd also developed a lactose intolerance/allergy which is why she was still so sick.

Is it an ‘urgent’ referral or a two week wait cancer referral? If it’s ‘urgent’ 6-8 weeks is standard. If it’s a cancer referral then that’s unacceptable and you need to get back onto them and make a fuss.

Mental health waiting lists in years for the more complex therapies, and that's even if you get on a waiting list.

A friend was on a waiting list for a certain therapy. She had to go every three months just to say that yes, she wanted to stay on the waiting list. At her last appointment she got told the service is closing, apparently due to a lack of demand (but the waiting list was in years). No alternative is being offered, and she needs to ask her GP to refer her to a psychiatrist to discuss what other options she has.

I'm very fortunate that my consultant keeps me on her list, but so many people can't even get an assessment, let alone ongoing treatment.

Father-in-law has a long standing brain tumour. It will kill him, but for now the treatment is so invasive it has been judged not to be worth it. He has check ups every 6 months but due to consultants (very rightly) working to rule, many of his appointments are a waste.
This government have destroyed the NHS, they don’t understand the workings, the pensions, the people. People are the NHS, and this government doesn’t give a damn about people

I fear it will gradually become survival of the richest 😞

So imagine how frustrating it is from our perspective when today for example, I'm sat ready and waiting in my clinic room for 6 out of 8 of my patients to DNA their appointments (did not attend).

Absolute waste of my time and a waste of NHS money and resources. Annoying for you because you're left waiting.

People just don't get it

@ncweds that’s terrible, not only wastes your time but deprives an appointment from someone who needs it. I really think there should be a charge for a missed appointment.

I work in an extremely deprived area, charging people for missed appointments would mean they can't afford to feed their families. Got food bank vouchers coming out my ears as it is. Ugh!

Some hospitals are run badly, OP's first referral, some hospitals are run better, OP's second referral. It is not as simplistic as saying "the NHS" is in crises. You would be horrified by the difference in the best and worst performing hospitals across the country, in general down to poor management not resources.

Also, please read up on the consultants pension "crises". It is basically down to the fact they earn too much money, and that, along with anyone else who earns that kind of money, they have both an annual, and total, cap on what can be paid into their pensions.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/squeals-privilege-nhs-doctors-pay-insult-public/