Would you sign this?

[devilinme]

DD is a student and wants to rent a house in London with 6 other students.

House they've found is 4K per month and landlord wants guarantors.

I've looked at docs and guarantor would be joint & several liable which means I could potentially be liable for the whole rent - for a year or anything else like damages.

I do t know any of the other students she's going to share with.

I won't sign and DD thinks I'm BU

They just get a bit carried away - they see a place they want to live in and panic that they won't get it.

Any landlord who expects one parent to guarantee everyone's rent is absolutely crazy. Who would do that?

You are absolutely correct about the risks of standing as a guarantor. All guarantors will be held joint and severally liable, which allows the landlord to pursue any or all guarantors in the event of contract breaches. If your daughter won't listen to you, tell her to ask a law student to explain it. Perhaps it will sound more credible coming from a fellow young person? x

My boss was in this situation and managed to change it so he was only guarantor for his daughter. He was a lawyer though and debated it on headed paper, which some people are persuaded by.

I wouldn’t sign and if I could I would lend her the money. She has a bad attitude, but if you are talking to her the way you have said here I am not surprised. Respect works both ways.

I’m probably your daughter’s age, and I absolutely understand your position - don’t do it! You will be contractually liable for the other student’s rent, and you don’t even know them/their circumstances. I wouldn’t rent a flat that states that I would be jointly and severally liable with the other tenants let alone be the guarantor.

If the agents mean that you would only be a guarantor for your daughter alone, they need to change the contract to specify that.

I have rented in London for years, including through my student years. So many things can change eg flat mates moving back home due to expenses, new jobs in a different area, fall outs, messy flat mates etc - don’t sign unless you’re comfortable with the worst case scenario

A real disaster waiting to happen. The state some houses are left in from renting is awful and certainly not just from students.

7 is a huge number to be sharing with.

I wouldn't dream of entertaining that.

Your DD is a madam if she gives you abuse over this and I wouldn't hesitate to let her know.

The other 7 sets of parents will be thrilled if you are the idiot that signs!

7 sharing in a house has party house written all over it bty!

um shes acting like a spoilt brat with they way shes treating you. if she wants to be treated like an adult she'll have to start acting like one and I wouldn't offer her any support until she does that

When my sis was in in Uni in Manchester my mam had to sign one of these, but for my sister only. All the other occupants had to have their parents sign it. Even though they were renting the full house the letting agent saw it as 6 different leases.

No, I signed for my own son's liability when he was a student but no way would I expect to pay for other students, absolutely not. Sole liability or nothing.

It's the standard terms for a student let. I think you can get indemnity insurance if you are concerned about the financial implications.

That contract is madness! One thing to sign for your own child, quite another to be liable for 7! Who has £48,000 lying around should the worse happen? That's enough to bankrupt most people several times over....

Your daughter is ridiculously naive to assume that you should take on legal and ultimately financial responsibility in this situation. She has no experience of house sharing.

Also, her conduct towards you is very immature and unkind, which is even more of a concern. You would be crazy to sign as guarantor.

Could you loan her the 6 months rent in advance and she’s pays you “rent” every month? X

@isthismylifenow

I don't live in the UK but that is a lot of money for rent imo. Is that normal for London prices? Or is this in a particular nice area?

I’d say that was pretty standard in central London TBH.

I wouldn't help her raise money for her own rent. Not a 21 year old. I wasn't supported after I turned 18. My dad once gave me £61 (it was 1978, for context) to clear a bank overdraft, and made sure I knew that wouldn't be happening again.

When I finished uni and was working full time I moved in with a friend, just the two of us, and because we both earned under a certain amount we both needed guarantors despite both being in secure full time employment. I fortunately had a family member agree to be my guarantor, but it was a similar situation; Joint and severally liable for the rent should I/we default.

The main difference in my situation is that it was me and one other who my family member knew; not multiple people, and the rent was considerably less that the figures you're mentioning.

The problem here is that it is nigh-on impossible for so many young people to live away from home, something which is important for so many to gain and learn independence, proximity to work/schooling and so on because the deposits are so high and this need for guarantors prevents a lot of people from doing so. As it was, I had to provide more proof of my earnings and identity to rent a poxy flat than I needed to give when I got my first mortgage!

I understand why you're not keen to be jointly liable for so many people, if she's normally sensible with her money and is responsible, could you reach a compromise, ie potentially lend her the 6 months up front on proviso she pays you back over those 6 months (as she'd be paying it on a monthly basis anyway) or go into rented accommodation with fewer people and reducing your potential liability?

No way would any sane person sign that. If she’s got savings, she can pay the six months in advance. I’m a big advocate of tough love.

Nope. Not unless the contract was changed so you were only guaranteeing her rent. (Been burnt by doing this in the past). DONT DO IT.

DD has called me and apologised.

This is the first time she has ever come across this scenario & now realises the implications. Her desperation to secure the house overwhelmed her ability to think clearly and this is a good lesson for her which I shall discuss later with her.

Last year she was abroad for her course, two different countries and she found her own accommodation in both, financed them for a year through savings from work she had done the previous year. I also contributed a small regular amount each month to assist her.

She is now concerned about what happens when she goes through this process for future rentals. I said I will happily guarantor for her alone but never for people I've never met, with no cap on my liability.

She has more than half the six months rental in savings, I will help her with the rest. I was very tough on her this morning but I want her to fully appreciate and understand what she was asking me to do

Absolutely don't sign!

The only way I'd be guarantor... Is solely for her.

Obvs... If you do this... Get it in writing...

Can you explain it to your daughter in words of one syllable... Exactly what this liability means?? (as in 48k if it all goes tits up... Plus any damages..).

She appears to have no experience of sharing houses...
Also she believes these housemates are all fine... People move out for all sorts of reasons... And you would be liable...

In my experience (and that of student pals). People have moved out suddenly and not paid rent (which of course you would be liable for...)... For many reasons.

1 failing exams
2 deciding course is not for them
3 moving in with their new love

1. Falling out with other flatmates about bill splits/ housework
2. Returning home 200 miles away as parent serosuly ill
3. Returning home 100 miles away as sister was killed.
4. Their mental health worsened needing to leave course for year.

8 involved in accident themselves and needed 6 months hospital/rehab...

The list goes on
At the the beginning of these tenancies.. All the students were intendjng staying full year

Don't do it!!!! My brother got my mum to do this and she was liable for rent arrears and damages when his friends decided they wanted to move out and left the place a mess. DO NOT DO IT

DD had this arrangement when she was sharing with friends. We were happy to be a guarantor because we knew the others and trusted them.

Now she is in a HMO and the other tenants come and go all the time. We are the guarantor just for her, not the others.

I am in agreement with you, don't sign it (I say that as someone who has been burnt as a guarantor) but I can sympathise with your DD's point of view too - it is absolutely the norm to do this and 90% of the time it is just fine. I can understand why she thinks you are being unreasonable because everyone else's parents are willing to take the risk. Not because they are foolish but because there aren't many other options and they are back into a corner, especially in London. There aren't enough places in halls, private halls are more expensive than house shares, and most people can't afford to pay the entire year/6 months upfront. Single rooms in HMOs aren't always that great and you have no idea who else might move in.

It's a big problem in London where rental costs can be almost as much as the full maintenance loan and there are lots of international students who can't get UK guarantors or students whose parents don't have a high enough income to act as a guarantor. DS's (London) university will act as a guarantor for a fee (£60) for students. There are also private companies that will do it (it's not cheap though). Has your DD looked into this?

Don’t sign it!

@runoutofnamechanges this is interesting regarding the uni acting for a fee, which Uni? DD is at Kings

I don’t think she cares what the liability to you would be given her tantrum. She’s 21 for crying out loud! I’d tell her if she continues acting like a two year old then you will end your financial support.

She’s being entitled, which is the danger when you’re an ATM to someone who demands independence but can’t 100% finance it.