The Boy in the Dress is not appropriate class reading for 8 or olds.

[Brightlightsbigcity]

Haven't read this myself, so am willing to accept that this may just be my dcs perception of it, but the feedback from kids talking to me about reading this in class appear to be:

1. The mum and dad fight a lot. Mum leaves.
2. The boy wears a dress. (I have no issue with this. Neither do DC. ) )
3. The dad hides rude, naked picture magazines under the kids bed/s.

I do have an issue with 3. Is it really appropriate for 7, 8 and 9 year olds to learn about naked pic magazines, which are rude, therefore dad hides them? (In the kids room, of all places. ) I'm not clutching pearls, but I don't think this is an appropriate subject matter for this age group, do you?

(I'm almost hoping it's a story from a friend, which got tangled up in the plot somehow... )

The thing is, is that kids pick things up. A lot of kids will already be exposed to certain 'inappropriate' themes. A lot of kids need these books to understand themselves and their home life. It's books like these that open up a safe conversation if it's one that needs to be had. The kids who don't need it generally ignore the bits they don't relate to.

Are you forgetting all the inappropriate themes, jokes, etc. in Disney films? Cartoons? Roald Dahl? Harry Potter? There's a reason things aimed at kids use those topics, and it's because a lot of kids need it. You can't shelter your child from every single peice of 'inappropriate' content because they are real issues that need to be seen, known, and spoken about.

Kids don't need porn. The only conversation I want to have (not even want but, you know) with my children is when they are teenagers and the message I want to give is that it is toxic and damaging- to everyone, and not in the context of it being no big deal and something everyone has under their bed.
Toxic masculinity is already fuelled by violence and porn, why should people be indoctrinated to believe it's just fine at an even earlier age so that children are growing up with it never to be questioned as it's even slipped into harmless children's books byodiouscreepymen ?

Conversation about porn* that should say!

I think the only reason for it was to highlight that a boy wanting to wear a dress is so taboo that Dennis would rather admit to looking at his dad's porn collection than admit he was reading Vogue magazine. However, DW could have easily covered the point in another way.

Thank you PrincessScarlett.

Toxic masculinity is already fuelled by violence and porn, why should people be indoctrinated to believe it's just fine at an even earlier age so that children are growing up with it never to be questioned as it's even slipped into harmless children's books byodiouscreepymen ?

Exactly, Sagradafamiliar. You expressed it better than me, I agree totally. With all the issues of pervasive porn nowadays, this feels like the tip of the iceberg - telling young children it's completely normal to be able to find and borrow your dad's porn stash. My 8 year old didn't even know this was a thing until reading this book, you might not believe it, but it was evident from what he said to me. We can have all the relevant conversations in the world about it, but it's now in his head, that looking at nude women is a thing designed to give him a thrill. Not how I want my 8 year old thinking.

By slipping it into books you get the opportunity to challenge that way of thinking...

How else will you challenge it?

It’s all around already...!!

Or watch the tv adaptation....

@Brightlightsbigcity if it makes you feel better - my son (10) was doing his school reading to me and read the bit to which you refer and I had exactly the same thoughts as you. I haven’t read the book and I figure so many people rate it I would have been bound to hear about it being negative if it really was so I shushed myself. Your initial reaction though? You’re not alone x

I read it, was looking forward to David Walliams and it was my first book of his. I was really underwhelmed and thought this was a bad story. Not the dress, just the behaviour of the kids in the book generally.

There are better books. I like Alison Uttley, Betsy Byars, E Nesbit and authors who could really write. I know it's subjective but I think that the authors of today really can't touch those.

Yeah I can’t stand the David Walliams books. Really awful in my opinion

I just never trust anyone who wants to prevent children reading books they haven't read themselves because... waaa, waaa, something.
Your kids will read, see, hear, be aware of... things that might confuse or worry them. If you're a reasonable parent (and a reasonable person) you will be open to discussing whatever it is with your DC. You might need to reassure them that [thing] isn't real, it's just a story, or you might need to point out that [thing] was upsetting and scary but the people in the story managed to overcome it, or you might need to discuss what would be the best thing to do if [thing] were to happen in your DC's lives.

But if you're stupid, or a bigot, or cruel, then books are the way your DC may well have to learn to navigate around you.

I find it hard to put into words what my objection to it is, but I'll try. It's telling little boys that men (and older boys) have this male thing they do, looking at nude pictures, which they hide. It's all boys together, male bonding type thing, over porn. It's kind of sordid. Only a man would write that in a children's book.

I found this to be a really interesting post.

It doesn't sound appropriate for that age group to me from your description.

I get the impression porn is seen as something dads do, or something to do as you get older... it normalises...and then you wonder why men tell their wives all men do it.

Do you let your children read Roald Dahl?

Danny, Champion of the World: Poaching, narcotics, TWOC, uninsured, underage driver.
George's Marvellous Medicine: Spiking old women with anti-freeze, veterinary drugs and alcohol.
The BFG: Murder and cannibalism
Dirty Beasts: Blatant xenophobia. Toad/snail-eating Frenchmen, stupid Americans and a horrid Afghan. Also, shitslinging.
Matilda: Car theft. Profiteering from crime.

These things are a damn sight worse than dirty mags. If you're going to go all Mary Whitehouse, at least be consistent with it.

Creepy man writes books for children with porn references, how can anyone defend that? You have every right to challenge the school OP.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3582616-Demon-Dentist-and-David-Walliams

'And he's creepy'
Ah well, there you have it. With carefully collected evidence like that I think you've got your answer op.

Exactly, Sandy. It's the normalisation that bothers me.
Slip the objectification of women into a book oh so casually, tee hee, how amusing for the adults reading along with the children. So subtle yet effective, as it's yet another thing, if not the first nod in the direction of misogyny.
And there are people up in arms....because it's not accepted by everyone. Reeling off lists of supposedly 'worse' topics written by other authors to take the spotlight off this one.

Yes and we are Mary Whitehouse because we object to porn. As I have said I have read the DW books so no one is suggesting banning them. Personally I think they are poorly written and I think the portrayal of woman is awful.
Some people think that we sho

Some people think that we shouldnt even raise concerns about normalising porn, I am afraid that our concerns are part of the 'free speech' you are fighting for.

Imo his books are not very well written, so many really good kids books out there, not sure why this would be picked to study.

I wouldn’t encourage my children to read DW. They’re not great.

I’m not being very clear but what I’m trying to say is the cat is out of the bag for the OP. Better to use this as a chance to challenge the misogyny than try and cover it up in horror.

Nothing wrong with letting children be children for as long as possible and protecting them from this shite. OP, I'd be the same as you.

One of his books (where the kid befriends a homeless man) looks down on people who claim benefits. I was uncomfortable reading it, but used the opportunity to discuss that very issue with DS.

How were you going to explain porn? You weren’t were you, you were going to explain the concept after the fact when he’d seen actual graphic images. The magazine with naughty pictures in it, could have been a talking point because kids are being introduced to ‘real’ porn at a younger age and blissful ignorance only works for the parents.

Oh and of course you need to read it, a short summary by an eight year old days after reading it isn’t the most reliable of sources.

Your reactionary bellyache is lazy and shortsighted. Literature is a excellent conversation starter, this moment could be used as a positive opportunity to start a conversation not shut down one.

I hate DW books....early on in my career, I read Billionaire Boy to the class without reading it properly first (recommended by a colleague). I found myself awkwardly glossing over comments about page 3 (which just seemed irrelevant and outdated as few kids even have newspapers in the house nowadays) and thought much of it was crude and badly written.

I have DW books in my class library for pupils to chose if they wish, but don’t read them to the class or set as required reading material.