AIBU to think work is BU about annual leave

[FirTree31]

Single parent to two primary school (just) boys. Our team has taken on extra work as someone has been asked to leave and they have not hired any one to replace him. One of my colleagues is also a parent (soon to be single) and I have in the last two days been declined two sets of annual leave, one for October and one for Easter holidays 2020 as she has already requested them. That means that when either one fo us books AL around school term we will be pitted against each other.
AIBU to think this is unfair and unsustainable. We are both master's students in our first entry level role, my issue is obviously not with my colleague, but with my line manager for pitting us lien this.

No I don't expect to cover all holidays, my children are both in camps this summer. I'd just like more time to save up for camps.

First come, first served is not a fair way of dividing up leave, especially in a very small team.

Can you speak to your manager about a fairer system?

Colleagues without school-age children don't tend to ask for holiday in February half-term or other school holidays though, do they? Unless their dp works in a school of course, so they can only go away then.

One place I worked refused to allow staff without kids to book any time off during school holidays as it was all reserved for those with children.

They haven't done anything wrong you can manage as a business on your current staffing levels . You can't expect them to take on extra staff so you can have school holidays off .

It sucks but I think you’re stuck with it as there isn’t really any way to effectively change it since it’s not an unusual procedure, although I recognise that it’s only become necessary in your team due to the reluctance to replace your former colleague and that would irk me too.

Responses on this thread reflect that different workplaces/sectors/roles handle this differently. I’m also in a (very) large public sector organisation and for my role I don’t currently have to worry who else is off at the same time - my work is my work and I just need to plan effectively to ensure things progress in my absence / wider deadlines are met by me finishing stuff up before my leave / anyone who needs access to docs or contacts or whatever has them. As I become more senior, I’m aware I’ll need to start scheduling my leave around that of my colleagues, and being more contactable when I’m off, but that’s easier to swallow in relation to more senior roles than at entry level (also more affordable - am also a single parent of two, I really sympathise on the cost of childcare!).

I really recognise the ‘we used to have this person who did this work, but for now we’re going to carry the vacancy and everyone else can work a bit harder to compensate’ approach, too, and that’s shitty even without the impact on holiday plans. I’m actually now in a fully resourced team for the first time in my career and the difference it makes is extraordinary. For ages I felt like ‘I’m not doing enough, there is definitely not enough on my plate’ and gradually it dawned on me that this is how it feels to have the workload of one person and no more... I still work hard, I’m still busy, but I can actually fit it into 37 hours a week and its novel. In a pleasant way. In your shoes I’d be pissed off too.

First come first served is a line manager cop out. A system is needed to allow people turns for key weeks. Not saying school weeks should automatically go to those with young children but I cannot imagine many people wanting those weeks off if they don’t need to as everything is twice the price!!

On a more serious note. Horrible to see people showing no camaraderie for women with DC who are left with the lions share of child care. We should be supporting each other.

you all work in weird places. I'm not in UK but the law here is that everyone is entitled to 2 weeks in one block or the company have to have a very very good reason not to give it.

Wherever I've worked we have been asked in January to roughly say when we want holidays, and where there has been conflict (as there usually was with school holidays, Christmas and New Year) people were asked to find compromise. If they couldn't the HR allocated - but made sure that people who got, say, their choice in summer, were at the back of the queue the following year, and that other people got priority for Autumn half term etc.

Sometimes you have to suck it up. But if you are understaffed that is the company's problem to fix. Are you in a union (I guess not - why not?)

I will definitely speak to line manager on Monday. This is not an organisation wide policy, this has been implemented since the extra work by LM. other teams sometimes leave only one person to the team! But I don't want to be immature/shitty about things, it's just a huge pain the arse and will cause financial hardship. But as some have said, maybe I just have to deal.
Booking AL in advance, I've booked a holiday next year a year in advance, and more than eight months until Easter break.

These race-to-the-bottom ‘business need’ justifications are depressing though. For some roles/sectors that really is necessary I guess, but tbh good employment practice should enable workers to manage their non-work commitments because that’s one of the ways you get the best attitude and commitment out of your staff when they are present, and how you encourage them to stay with you as they develop and grow better at their jobs. In HR in a large-ish organisation that should be eminently possible.

You can't expect them to take on extra staff so you can have school holidays off

That’s not in any way what the OP has said she thinks her employer should do.

I'm afraid this is just life. You could have ended up on a team where everyone wants school holidays off, or on one where you're the only parent. Plenty of people are in jobs where it's hard to get time off when you want it. Talk to your colleague, talk to your manager, try to negotiate as reasonably as possible. And in the end, if it doesn't work for you any more, you're always free to look for another job. That's how it goes.

I think first come first served is unfair at certain times of year. I had a member of the team try to book all of Christmas as annual leave, knowing that someone needs to cover in the office. I refused it and sat her and her colleagues down to hammer out who was doing what so everyone did their fair share. She tried to say she had booked a holiday with her family and was unable to work. I said that if she had been foolish enough to book a trip without first securing annual leave it was her problem. Funnily enough she can now return earlier than her family in order to work new year as agreed with the team.

Some people are just selfish, and will bend over backwards to ensure they get what they want at the expense of others. I do think that in these situations it is up to a manager to ensure that things are fair for the entire team.

None of the team have kids btw, except me and I will be working!!!!

I think people with partners who are teachers and those with school age children should get priority as they are very restricted in when they can take time off. My boss used to complain about this.. to the women members of staff, naturally.. until my other boss broke his leg skiing and had over six weeks off...
The point is that your department is not properly budgetting for the fact that between just the two of you, you have at least 10 weeks holiday a year. Not including all the holiday weekends and Not accounting for any accidents, or other emergencies. They need to introduce some flexibility into this situation, maybe a part time hire? If they don't they are making it difficult for those with school age children to work at their company. I hope you can negotiate with them on the need to ensure proper staffing levels. Good luck.

I don't expect the organisation to recruit just so I can have AL around my children, but I do not expect to pick up a very hefty bill in their absence. It is the company's decision not to hire, it has impacted our workload, two people have cried at work in recent weeks, and it is not impacting AL. it's bigger than me having children.

Nell...thank you for being so understanding, and also for mentioning WL, I was asked if I needed support for the first time this week as I was going too slow. I only work PT, although I'm increasing my hours in August when youngest starts school.

I do think part of effective management of a team involves planning for times when you know you will be light of resources - Xmas and August being prime examples but also if you have members of the team with school age children and/or partners who are teachers you absolutely have to factor this in. It's a key planning variable. To just pretend it isn't happening or that might go away is totally ineffectual.

She’s done nothing wrong.

Presuming you have five weeks holidays.

Holidays = 2 - Christmas, 2- Easter, 3x half-terms, 6- summer holiday

= 13 weeks

So if she has booked three weeks total, then she has booked less than a quarter of school holidays.

Hardly unfair.

We are HE, we all have Christmas off which is very lucky (it comes out of total AL allowance). I'm posting because I want to see if I'm BU. I've had Three weeks three days been declined today because my colleague got there two days earlier than me. I'm concerned this will become an issue going forward as her and I will put in all the same term dates. I don't think this will be as much of an issue during summer holidays, as we have seven weeks, neither of us have AL to cover this so save and budget for this. This summer I only have one week off.

As per a pp - first come first served is unfair.

I'm NHS and in a small team. I'm one of two senior secretaries with a relief secretary and a transcriptionist.

The two senior secretaries and relief have to discuss leave amongst ourselves - if there are conflicting dates that either of us want, we have to discuss amongst ourselves and come to an agreement. If no agreement can be met - i.e Christmas two of us want the same week off, then it comes down to last year if someone had a certain week off, then it was the secretary who worked that week to be granted the leave.

I think you have a point.

If you didn't get the AL and there was a proper system then it would be a case of suck it up and get over it, but a first come first served situation in a small team where people are already expected to cover another member of staff who has left sounds like a shambollic way to run a team in my opinion.
What would they do if someone was off sick? Went on maternity? Had a family emergency? Expect the remaining staff to pick up the work?

They need to have a plan and they don't have one.

Are any of you working longer than your contracted hours to fit in these new demands? Working through lunch etc?

Do you get working tax credit OP?

If so, you will have to pay £90 yourself and tax credits will pay £360 of the £450 childcare bill.

All of us work longer and very often through lunch. We have Flexi, but although I worked longer this week, I was told not to come in any extra days (Thursday and Friday I don't work atm) as they couldn't cope with me taking time back.

If you are public sector do they provide any support for child care costs? My public sector employer will pay 25% of official holiday clubs as they want to avoid the situation you find yourself in where working parents all want the same leave and face extra costs.
I work on projects with a colleague who also has school age children. We are both having the same holidays. We seem lucky compared to most in this thread, most people get the leave they want despite being a small team. It's kind of first cube first served but we have a discussion if it looks like we'll all be off at same time and try to come to an arrangement that gives everyone at least part of what they wanted. I trade a long summer break for working most of Christmas and New year.

You and your colleague need to work something out. I have this situation with my boss (we can’t both be off at the same time) and we’ve made it work for years without any problems.

They do need to stop “first come first served” though - it’s a bit immature, especially for an HR team. I would expect you two to work it out as mature adults capable of listening and co operation.

I have a colleague with dc too and we try not to be off at the same time, a day or two overlap is ok, but not full weeks.

We have 33 days holiday and as there is 13 weeks school holidays it works out fine with a bit of give and take.

Easter is two weeks and we take a week each. Summer is 7 weeks so we have 2-3 weeks each. October week we agree together, this year she took more time at summer so didn't want days off in October. Xmas we can both be off. Feb 1/2 term (Scotland) we usually take a couple of days each etc.

Completely reasonable to ask 2 adults to work together and sort out their own holidays/cover.