To wonder when a diet becomes dangerous?

[Catchphrase]

When someone is dieting because they're overweight/obese and decide to cut out food groups, restrict calories and up exercise, they are championed and congratulated.

But when someone has a BMI of, say, 22/23 but wants to improve further they're told they are controlling, fussy, need to let loose and have a burger, have disordered eating, are slim enough already.

So is disordered eating only disordered when you're not technically overweight?

Is a diet only considered dangerous (eg anorexia) once you reach a certain (under)weight?

Medically there's probably a different point, for me personally, I knew it was when I was underweight but also looked very unwell. Looking back at photos now my face looked large in comparison to my body, and really out of proportion. When it's having a physical and emotional impact on your life it's probably not healthy!

I'm not sure what you mean by 'want to improve further' - do you mean want to lose more weight? That language alone implies an eating disorder to be honest

In reality I think that a healthy waist measurement and less than an inch of belly fat (when you pinch it) is better than looking at BMI which isn't a good guide.

For example if you lifted weights you could well build muscle that took you into a high BMI but have hardly any body fat. Or you could be an apple shape like me, normal BMI, not much muscle but unhealthily fat round the middle.

There's not just one answer for everyone. But I can say that if you lose a lot of weight and feel you look good, there will always be people trying to fatten you up until you're as padded as they are.

In reality I think that a healthy waist measurement and less than an inch of belly fat (when you pinch it) is better than looking at BMI which isn't a good guide.

This. Also diets don't really work. There isn't a quick fix for long term weight loss and health improvements, so I don't think any diet is healthy.

Disordered eating is not determined by your weight.

I agree about waist size and waist to height ratio is a good measure, better than BMI. Lots of info if you google.

Disordered eating is not determined by your weight

But it seems to me that it is. At least generally.

If an overweight person cuts down to 1000kcals a day they're doing 'really well' and have great willpower.

If someone not overweight cuts down to 1000kcals a day, they're fussy and need to eat a doughnut.

If an underweight person cuts down to 1000kcals a day, they're anorexic and need help.

Yes, there are a lot of confusing and unhelpful messages about food in this country.

IME (indirect; of a friend) NHS eating disorder services do not treat unless a person is putting their own health at risk ie seriously underweight. They can show the exact same symptoms but it will not meet their criteria.

Healthy eating should not involve dieting. Dieting by nature is not very healthy.

Context is everything here.

No one should tell a grown-up what they should eat and how, some people are just jealous by the sound of it.
If the person on a diet makes a big fuss about calories and talks about diets all the time, I can imagine why others are getting bored.
If you chose a salad over a burger without any comment, no one should question your choice. If you explain in length that you are on a diet, they might react.

So it depends.

NHS eating disorder services do not treat unless a person is putting their own health at risk ie seriously underweight.

Exactly! When the problem has already gone so far. If disordered eating is about more than what you weigh, then we need to stop encouraging diets and awful institutions like WW and SW and Slimfast.

And put more emphasis on strength, fitness and balanced meals.

It just seems so messed up to encourage those overweight to restrict, cut out food groups and make some food 'bad' when those messages may hit deeply and become a problem.

And likewise, just because someone is an average weight but wants to tone up/lose more fat doesn't mean they have a problem.

Such a difficult question-I'm someone with anorexia and have recently spent 5 months living in hospital and I can say that my eating disorder started at a bmi if 22 so I was a healthy weight when I first had an e.d, most e.ds will lead to some complications if you are not eating properly regardless of your weight- heart problems, deficiency's, affect your mental health etc

But it seems to me that it is. At least generally

I suppose it depends who you ask. Personally, I don't think a 1000cal intake is healthy for anyone.

Someone who is eating this to lose weight because they are misinformed for example, is a lot different from someone doing it because they have an eating disorder.

It's true that you won't get help for anorexia if you are above a certain weight- which is awful, but you don't need to be underweight to be anorexic or have an eating disorder and anorexia isn't always or just about being skinny or thinking you're fat when you're not.

It just seems so messed up to encourage those overweight to restrict, cut out food groups and make some food 'bad'

But if you look at the NHS healthy eating guidance for weight loss it doesn't do that. It just recommends generally healthy eating and around 1400 calories a day along with exercise, which is kind of sensible.

Well the obvious difference there is that the first of those people has weight they need to lose, the second is doing it purely for aesthetic reasons and the third is endangering their health.

That said, it's rare that an overweight person would be told it's ok to eat 1000kcals, as it's below the amount needed for optimum nutrition, and also overweight people can eat more and still lose weight as they burn more energy. A Dr might put someone on a VLCD but it's generally because they are so large that their weight is an immediate concern.

Exactly! When the problem has already gone so far. If disordered eating is about more than what you weigh, then we need to stop encouraging diets and awful institutions like WW and SW and Slimfast

Agreed.

It just recommends generally healthy eating and around 1400 calories a day along with exercise, which is kind of sensible.

Don't agree with this though. It will be different for everyone and will depend largely on what type of exercise you're doing. I would struggle to get enough nutrients on 1400cals a day and would find it very tedious having to be this restrictive. Cutting too low is one of the main reasons people binge eat, then put weight on, then it's harder to lose again.

My DM has perpetually dieted her whole adult life. She has a BMI of around 22 so healthy and does not need to lose any weight yet she still pays for WW meetings and endless products. I think she has body dysmorphia, she genuinely believes she is huge.

Surely the difference is about timescales. If a larger person diets for x months and then returns to a more normal routine after, that’s healthy. If they don’t stop and continue to an unhealthy weight it is a mental health issue. It’s about whether the person has control and becoming underweight is when it’s seen as going too far.

I disagree with User above. BMI of 22 can be carrying excess fat - at 9 stone 164cm I’m still fairly wobbly, my BMI is 21. I want to lose more but my eating is normal and I’m doing it slowly. I’ve done it more strictly in the past but it was temporary so not worrying.

The NHS guide mentioned above says only suitable for those with BMI over 25

I need to lose a good 3 stone to be a healthy weight again after having two babies in quick succession. I have PCOS so it's harder than the norm for me to shift it.

I went to see my GP about an unrelated issue the other week. She mentioned my weight and I explained that I am going to lose it but the only way I can do it personally is to stick to 1000 calories a day and exercise lots (this is what has worked pre-children). I told her that currently, with a baby and toddler who don't sleep well I'm just unable to maintain that. I'm exhausted, I don't need to be starving all the time too and I have little time for lots of exercise.

She told me that I need to get started now, and that if having only 1000 calories a day is what I need to do then I need to get on and do it.

I do need to lose the weight, and I will. But I was really surprised that she not only ok'd such a low calorie diet for an exhausted new mum but that she basically told me no excuses just get on with it now.

In a much slimmer person, I'm sure sticking to such a lcd would ring alarm bells.

Actually most medical professionals say you shouldn't give up food groups to loose weight, you need to restrict calories and up exercise. Once you reach the right weight for your height you should maintain by eating healthily rather than restricting calories (if you continue to loose then it sounds like an eating disorder)

The alarm bells ring for me when entire groups of foods are excluded for reasons unclear. I have a friend who is definitely underweight. Always very slim but now terribly thin. Every time I see her she mentions another group of foods she’s ‘intolerant ‘ to.

I think a diet becomes concerning when the person following it prioritises the diet over everything else, so won't go out for a meal to celebrate a birthday, won't miss the gym for a special event etc.

There is a fairly large subset of women who think a diet is dangerous once it gets to the point that the dieting indvidual may become slimmer than they are! It is driven by competition and jealousy rather than concern for anyone's health

Owlina - Interesting viewpoint, another way of looking at it would be that they prioritise their health over social expectations/conformity.

lemons bit of a rubbish life if you never do anything with it though?

No point living till 100 and having no friends!