AIBU poor teaching is to blame for DD dropping two predicted grades during yr 9

[RainbowMaths]

Just had the end of year 9 report and DD has drooped two predicted grades since this time last year.
IN the past various parents have muttered about the teacher but I've ignored them and told DD to get her head down and push on.

But AIBU to think that dropping two grades is a school problem rather than a student problem. How do I support DD? Complain to the school? Find a tutor? How can we turn this around?

Get a tutor

The predicted grades are based on end of year exams. No comments or extra information. I've no idea if they were allowed to keep their test papers.

In the first instance, I would contact your DD's maths teacher and ask for feedback on where she dropped marks. Could be something as simple as she turned two pages at once on the exam paper, or perhaps there are a couple of areas that she really hasn't grasped that she needs extra help with.

I would definitely ask for a discussion. I'd like to know which areas my child was behind so that a plan of action could be put into place with the intention of extra support at home etc. My son had a year where he fell behind in maths and it was because of poor teaching which was recognised by the school. Intervention was put into place for the class. My son now has a different teacher who seems to really inspire my son and he is now ahead of where he should be.

I also had a terrible maths teacher when I was at school during Y9. My teacher would sit at her desk and not actually teach. We used textbooks and I don't remember her actually move from her desk once or actually do any teaching. She used to sit there filing her nails. I went under the radar completely and fell so behind.

I think DD is a clever, conscientious student but who is n't a maths natural.

I had the same situation with DS. He just required more one on one instruction than he could get in school. After we found the right tutor to spend an hour or two a week with him he did fine.

RainbowMaths
You're right to avoid gossip. Sometimes student and parent gossip is what triggers and promotes some poor attitude in the group, which affects the well behaved ones too.

If it is a teacher issue then the school will be well aware of it, if the HOD and senior leadership are good.

Getting a tutor early on gives you best pick of local tutors and then see who she has next year.

I always mark them too high so they don't feel bad about themselves'. That's nice, but some other bugger in a year's time has to then explain why they've dropped/is threatened with capability because the steady grade 4s aren't the 6-7s they were at the data drop.
Tell me about it. At least in a school with a good culture it's more 'we appreciate last year's teacher didn't do enough and we support you in getting them on track'.

Thank you everyone, for all the input, lots of considered responses.

I am going to approach the school but with neutral language no hint of blame. I suspect it's a little bit of lots of factors listed above.

DD not stepping up and putting in the work outside of school
An ok rather than brilliant teacher
Its not my job to track teacher performance
It is my role to bolster DD, build her confidence up and see that any gaps are plugged over the hols and get year 10 off to a good start.

Not let one subject over shadow DD's hard work and results elsewhere.

Predicted grade for GCSE? Have you been provided with end of ks4 predictions in year 8 and 9?

As an ex maths HOD I’d suggest you find out a few things. A change in predictions doesn’t mean your DD hasn’t made progress this year, or fallen behind. It could be a number of reasons - a change in the type of prediction used (eg FFT data, school ‘flight path’). It could be that the year 8 prediction was way too optimistic. It could be that your daughter didn’t make enough progress this year because of a change in her effort, in which case I’d have expected a call from school to tell you about any issues much earlier than this, when something could be done about it.

An end of key stage prediction is not really a reflection of how well your DD has done this year. A prediction could be plucked out of thin air. FFT predictions in maths are fairly reliable, but still only offer a ‘most likely’ prediction.

Don’t worry at this point, but I’d definitely be going to school to ask about this. They may be able to explain it to you. If they lay blame at your daughter’s feet, I’d be really cross that they hadn’t contacted you earlier.

I had to have this conversation with several parents at my first parents night this past year (Scotland so slightly different). I had been passed a class where 9/10 were predicted to be at a certain level.

In the first month each teacher used assessments to asses where the class is, using assessments fit for the previous year group, to ascertain whether the class were where they were supposed to be on entry. Not testing on anything new whatsoever.

Almost every child scored significantly poorer than I was told. I then had to explain at parents night why we were working on x/y/z, why certain books were issued and so on without saying "the previous teacher lied to make it look better".

Thankfully by the end of this year all children scored better at a higher level so had all come on.

Sometimes it's not the teachers fault. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's the pupils or the parents. Sometimes the day they've been tested isn't a good day. Sometimes it's a mix of everything.
You need to remain calm until you figure out what the reasons behind this are.

FFT predictions in maths are fairly reliable

But they are targets generated from KS2 results and this sounds more like a teacher prediction.

Thing is, predicted grades are a bunch of arse. Ofsted aren’t even going to look at them any more because there’s no guarantee of reliability.

So the answer to ‘why has my DD’s predicted grade for maths dropped by two grades?’ could be any number of reasons, most of them not actually related to a real drop in performance.

Ive had classes drop grades when ive taken them on. Sometimes it has been because the previous teacher just copied and pasted their predicted grades. Sometimes it was because the previous teacher always made sure they covered the questions on the assessment in class then did model answers. Both of those sets of data are bloody meaningless. Ive had parents phone about my grades at the start of yr 9 and I was able to say as we havent covered x, y, z and also the exam skill required to get a 7,8 and 9 in year 11 so i have no evidence to predict higher atm, and not to worry.

I honestly would look at comments rather than data.

Blaming the teacher? Are you for real? Perhaps your DC should put more work in rather than clearly fob you off!

Is there not a comment on the report card about that drop? I would always caution parents against getting too hung up on predicted grades, especially in year 9. There's so many factors that could have influenced it, some of which could be internal to how the department tracks pupil progress and nothing actually do to with a drop in performance!

Ive had a handful of year 9’s score lower than they should on the eoy exam. These are very clever very presentable very involved students. Ive had to argue to keep them in the top set because the data isnt a reflection of their true ability. The school uses them for every event going and they are also all involved in sports. Matches mean they often leave my school during my
Lesson, last in the day, they've missed LOADS of the course. The school wont use them so much in ks4 so their grades will go up. Making me look a bit shit in the process!

Another point to bear in mind is that the maths GCSE changed quite significantly in 2017 and nobody knew quite what to expect. So when your DDs teacher wrote her Y7 report there would be no results from the new GCSE, and in Y8 there would only be 1 years worth or results.It might be that they are firming up their understanding of how KS3 results translate to GCSE result.

I’ll just leave this here...

WomanLikeMeLM MsRabbitRocks
I think you're being a bit unfair on the OP. She's had a surprise dip for her child, has avoided gossip with parents but is aware of some of it and has come on here asking for advice on whether it's a teacher issue or not. When people have replied, OP has listened to what people have said, taken it on board and has no plans to go into school complaining.

Predicted grades are not a bunch of arse. There are plenty of statistics that have monitored students progress from KS2 up to KS4 + KS5 and there is a direct correlation in most cases in all subjects.

I really wish people would stop saying predicted grades are a crock of shite, they're there for a reason. Of course they're not going to be bang on every single time, but more often than not a grade 4 student will not be getting a grade 7 and a grade 8 student will not get a grade 2.

It could just be a blip based on the most recent test. We have several tracking points over the year and it has to be standardised for all students so 1 piece of work/test has to be set for all students to give an accurate picture. Some teachers will adjust slightly if they think it's an unfair representation but some may not, that may just be what has happened here

Please don't blame the teacher though OP, most of us spend most of our lives doing the best we can for our students and to have a parent say they are a poor teacher would be absolutely heartbreaking

@MsRabbitRocks that's exactly what has happened.
The resources thrown at my kids - the internet, apps, teacher produced knowledge organisers, the endless data tracking at primary level (ex-guv here)

I don't want to see a return to my schooling where buying a Letts revision guide was aiming above your station.

Thank you Mumsnet, I don't want to go mad at the school, governors, my child, Ofsted or gossip with the other parents. I've been offered some fantastic behind the scenes insight, some practical been there advice and I have n't pissed off the slightly broken staff at our underfunded local school.

I do think the communication from school is poor, but no one has time to put these complicated bits of information out there. We literally get a vague grade for effort and a three grade span predicted grade for GCSE.

DD will be resistant (she's a hormonal, teenage mess) but hopefully we'll sort it without ruining an over managed, under supported teacher.

Predicted grades are not a bunch of arse. There are plenty of statistics that have monitored students progress from KS2 up to KS4 + KS5 and there is a direct correlation in most cases in all subjects.

No, target grades are based on national averages, so, theoretically, there will be as many students who fall below the prediction as exceed it. That is before you consider variations in cohort strength.

Predictions are based on the teacher’s actual view of likely attainment. There should be a reasonable correlation between the prediction and the ultimate grade achieved by the pupil. The prediction does not need to be correlated with the target - that’s malpractice.

The trouble with maths compared to many other subjects is that lots of it builds on what you've learned previously, so miss grasping a few concepts and it can feel like you're drowning.
As well as the other things mentioned above, I'd ask the teacher where she got lost, if she did, and how she can sort that out.

No, target grades are based on national averages, so, theoretically, there will be as many students who fall below the prediction as exceed it. That is before you consider variations in cohort strength.

Predictions are based on the teacher’s actual view of likely attainment. There should be a reasonable correlation between the prediction and the ultimate grade achieved by the pupil. The prediction does not need to be correlated with the target - that’s malpractice.

You beat me to it.

It's why 2 schools could have identical cohorts but different targets if one uses FFT50 and one uses FFT20. The likelihood of a student achieving any of their target remains the same: that is whatever % chance of a particular is on the graph

It's when you give a 6 prediction to a child with grade 7 target and have to explain that the target would be what a child of their DC's starting point would be most likely to get, but most likely can mean they have a 43% chance of getting a grade 7 so are actually more likely to get a grade that isn't a 7 than a 7, thus a grade 6 prediction in a subject they are finding tough is a reasonable prediction.

Huh, no. If someone is eager and willing to learn, they will learn anywhere, in any school, with any teacher. They'll put in the effort. If your child isn't on track then it's their own fault. Not even the best teacher will teach a child who can't be arsed anything.

Maths is very teacher dependant. Anyone can be reasonably good with the right teaching. But most teachers struggle to teach it even to very able students. I would suggest getting a tutor who has a teaching style that suits your daughter.

Anyone can be reasonably good with the right teaching

That isn’t true. Some people won’t be good at maths ever.

Ds2 had a very crap teacher for the year10 of one of his options

Luckily this changed for year 11 so hopefully that will have made a difference

But i agree with other posters that a non blaming attitude at least to start will be best as it will ensure that the drop in grades is properly looked at, and it probably is down to a change in recording and obviously the changes to the maths syllabus