To be upset male colleague is paid much more

[TrixieMixie]

I have an older male colleague who was recruited years ago on a fantastic deal at a time when a lot of money was sloshing round our industry. Back in the day I was young and in a junior position but worked my way up to the point I am at least equal to him in status, responsibility etc. He is well over typical retirement age and has shrunk his role but not his pay which is a multiple of mine. There has been deflation of pay in my industry. I like this man and he has been a mentor to me so I wish him no harm but it feels very unfair to me. I love my job. I’ve raised this with several managers who have agreed it’s not fair but nothing has been done. He shows no sign of retiring despite being in his 70s, why would he as he’s on such a sweet deal. He is valuable to the organisation and makes a good contribution. But I feel like a mug. I don’t think a man in my situation would be expected to put up with it. Any thoughts on what to do to resolve this amicably and not fall out with him or my bosses?

@incandescentshadow

Can you explain to us how you want her HR department to adjust down his salary?

There’s a funny thing called employment law that prevents that. To achieve it they would have to do a full redundancy process, which would include OP and would require them to benchmark salaries when reallocating or inviting people to reallocate their jobs. You can’t just wander in on a Monday morning and say “by the way your pay is going down £20k and OPs is going up by £20k because Gloria on mumsnet thinks that’s fairer”

Yes, obviously there is such a thing as negotiation, and I fail to see why the male colleague cannot have it suggested to him that he take a pay cut should he wish to reduce his hours or take less responsibilities. Obviously he does not have to accept it, but then that is where good management skills come in (obviously they won't be found in the average HR department). No-one is talking about making him redundant. However, his contract of employment has changed and particularly he has less responsibilities, so it would not be unreasonable that his salary should be reduced to reflect that. Its a process of negotiation.

You are not seriously suggesting that no employer has carried out such pay negotiations in the current economic climate? Its also sensible for them because they risk losing a much younger, experienced colleague to a competitor.

It actually stinks that women are still working harder than men for less salary because it was so difficult for women to get a foot in the door in the past. It certainly does not mean that women should feel guilty for questioning it, or suggesting ways of tackling it.

and I fail to see why the male colleague cannot have it suggested to him that he take a pay cut should he wish to reduce his hours or take less responsibilities.

Dont be so ridiculous no manager or HR person is going to say 'listen Bob, I know you negotiated that deal but you you take a pay cut cause it upsetting Karen or we realised it's not fair'

Would you take a pay cut if asked nicely by your boss?

Again, this isnt gender or sex based. Its based on the fact that the role was more lucrative when he joined.

The company have good material proof that ops rate of pay is to do with the fact that he joined first. When people learnt bigger salaries, in thay industry.

Given the OP has 25 years experience she will probably be being paid more than men who have joined after her. Which again would be the material evidence.

Protein Dont be so ridiculous no manager or HR person is going to say 'listen Bob, I know you negotiated that deal but you you take a pay cut cause it upsetting Karen or we realised it's not fair'

No, they say "Bob, we are having to make some cut backs in the present economic climate in order to secure the company's future and its remaining competitive on pricing potential orders, and we are all having to tighten our belts. Your salary was set at a time when etc etc" Of course Bob doesn't have to agree but a skilled manager will realise that its worth a try, at least to make Bob aware of his position on salary compared to other experienced staff. Bob is in his bloody seventies ffs - theres no need to tiptoe around him. He could drop dead tomorrow.

Would you take a pay cut if asked nicely by your boss?

I actually *know" two people who were asked to. One university last year wanted to cut pension rights and 10% of hourly rate for all its lecturing staff. I think it was a matter of individual negotiation in the end but it did happen. It is something people have to deal with actually.

Bob, we are having to make some cut backs in the present economic climate in order to secure the company's future and its remaining competitive on pricing potential orders, and we are all having to tighten our belts. Your salary was set at a time when etc etc" Of course Bob doesn't have to agree but a skilled manager will realise that its worth a try, at least to make Bob aware of his position on salary compared to other experienced staff. Bob is in his bloody seventies ffs - theres no need to tiptoe around him. He could drop dead tomorrow.

That's and out and out lie. The OP hasnt suggested they wont raise her wage because he is on a good wage or that the company cant afford it.

And what you are doing there is age discrimination.

And what if he drops dead tomorrow. He might have a decent death in service benefit as well.

And if someone were to complain they joined after op when the wages were even less generous. Should she think sensibly about it and take the cut?

Thinking about it, the company could cut their own wage bill by encouraging a climate where people feel free to complain that someone else is paid more.

That doesnt sound like a win for anyone. The time to negotiate his wage, was when he negotiated his new term.

And it doesnt matter if you know someone who has.

Would you take a pay cut, when you were only person asked to take it, for the sake of the business?

The only time I have ever known it is when everyone is asked because the company on temporarily in trouble.

There's a lot more to renumeration than someone's responsibilities.

Knowledge, experience, expertise etc etc are always valuable, often moreso than the nuts and bolts of the role.

I've seen jobs work like this

New employee starts, who has industry knowledge. It is found that they received better pay, than some existing employees who had been there 10 years
The management stated, that they had to pay the current market rate

If this man retires

Your company is very unlikely to suddenly increase your current wage to his previous wage

Sadly, employment doesn't work like that !

His pay deal was agreed years ago, ok he may have lost some responsibilities now but the company, for whatever reason have agreed to keep his Pay and benefits as it is. That’s their choice and actually has nothing to do with you you consider it unfair, that’s your choice but you will find in any company osy and package disparities for any number of reasons, that’s why most companies don’t allow talking about your salary.

You have a choice, suck it up and get over it, accept that’s what it is and move on, or find a job elsewhere that pays what you think you are worth

Honestly it's clear that someone people in this thread have never worked in industry. Pay discussions are always a private discussion relating to the employee themselves. The two factors that matter are industry norms and personal performance. Others terms and conditions are completely irrelevant as it totally depends on the package they negotiated when they started.
( and over here times these norms can change)