11 plus tuition type confusion- what to choose

[user1461609321]

Hi everyone

My son will be in year 4 this September and so I wish to start the 11 plus weekly tuition with him.

We normally do extra work together at home with DH taking the lead on math tuition and me focusing on English/ verbal reasoning etc

Owing to time constraints, my DH has been able to do more daily maths tuition with our son, which has now become his area on strength

At school, son in top groups across the board but does occasionally struggle to focus if not set a specific task.

I have come across 2 options for tuition,

1st option

Run in a school setting fairly close to home

Children taught according to age

Children expected to do specialists 11 plus homework 5x a week

1 class on Saturday between 1-3pm

Owner seems popular, eg lots of parents of former students calling out to her as she walked past like a mini celebrity

we attended a test day some months back, son did ok, with maths being clearly area of strength

The written feedback from test day seemed very accurate and summed up my son's ability perfectly, given pointers on how to improve although we did have to wait 2 weeks for the feedback!

Going forward cost will be £40 per week with £20 monthly top up for specialists subject support, so potentially £180 a month in tuition!

2nd option

Person teaches from her home in groups of between 4/5 students (not sure I am happy leaving my child in a strangers house -totally my issue)

Weekly classes

Person comes personally recommended from acquaintance whose child recently got into a gramma

Classes cost £24 per session (so miles cheaper)

So people, which would you choose?

Money is not necessarily an issue as I am desperate for child to do well and this is obviously cheaper than an independent school

Some thoughts :
It's Grammar not gramma
What area are you in? This is useful to know so you get relevant comments.
Is it normal to tutor in Year 4 in your area? In my area normal is once a week during Year 5.
The home one is likely to gave a better ratio of teacher to students.
You can ask if she's CRB checked.
5 homeworks a week is excessive when added to normal school homework.

Where are you OP?

'Owner seems popular'... how is this relevant?!

'I am desperate for child to do well' is a worrying comment. Are you inadvertently applying pressure to your child?
You can overdo these things to the point the child loses interest, you say he 'loses focus' sometimes, fairly normal for age.

It is worth visiting prospective grammar schools with your son. HE needs to feel motivated to work towards a grammar school. Ultimately only he can put in the effort required.

Good luck. I have 3 in grammar so have been around the block!

I was paying for tuition for nearly a year for my DS who is just finishing yr5. We visited the grammar school a few weeks ago and he hated it - we shut down the whole 11+ thing from then on as there was no way he was going to but the effort in once he had decided he didn't like the school. You need the DC to have a look around the school before you make any decisions about tutoring.

I think it sounds far too much tutoring and pressure. What happena if he doesnt get in? What happens if he does get in but cant keep up as hes only got in due to all the tutoring

5 x a week 11+ in year 4 is crazy. Enjoy being a child and having other interests. Really.

DD does an hour a week and then some extra practice and that is enough

I agree with feathery you really do need to go around. We went round with DD and it is not for everyone, indeed for very few and if you have to do that amount of tution already for him to just be ok. Ok and unfocused is not a good place to be in the grammar system

My dd is going in to year 5 this sept. So far she has had 3 sessions total with her tutor and will start weekly mid sept. This is the common pattern down here - Plymouth which is a grammar school LA. A very few parents start in year 4 but it does happen.

The way I see it is that 2 whole years of tuition for the 11+ is hothousing and not fair in the child. I didn't make the decision until Easter in year 4 that dd1 would take the 11+ as I wanted to be sure it would suit her. As it happens she really firmed up her skills this year and is top of the class therefore I felt like GS was a viable option for her - not just my desire.

I wouldn't choose any of those.
By all means help your child prepare for the 11plus for sure, a bit of tuition in year 5.
But a child who needs that much help just to pass his 11plus, is going to crumble in a grammar school. It isn't fair on him. I think you're doing far far far too much already for a what 7/8 year old child.

Also your son needs some choice in the tuition he has to want to do it. Dd1 told me she wanted to go with her friend also sitting the 11+ - so we trialled it with the tutor and so far very good. You are asking so much from your child there has to be some give and take

You are already doing tuition in year 3?? Or did I misunderstand? This is far too much, he just needs to learn the types of questions. Will he have tutors all.through GCSEs, A levels, university? Madness. Let him be a child.

If he needs that amount of tutoring then he is not grammar school material. I used to work in a grammar school in a pastoral role and it was very obvious in the first half term which students had been extensively tutored to get in. This all stops and suddenly they are struggling to keep up with their peers and their self esteem and confidence plummet.

Get some practice papers (a lot of students are not taught verbal reasoning) and see how he goes when he is in year 5. Keep it light and fun.

Also if he is struggling but still coming top ish in his class think about how he will feel amongst the very brightest students and always near the bottom.

Thanks for the replies everyone, however the intention of the thread was not to debate whether we should tutor in year 4 or not but to determine which option most found to be the most beneficial in the same/ similar scenario for their child

I am certain that I am not the only person tutoring in year 4 as on test day there was a looonnnggg line of those waiting to sit the tests to determine if they would be accepted on the 11 plus course!

Please be rest assured that my son gets plenty of time to play, wrestle, socialise like any other 8 year old, however had we just left him to the minimum work being covered by the school, he would not be reaching his potential as he clearly is now.

Like everyone else, I just want the best for my children and will encourage them to try for things like the 11 plus etc, if they don't get in, there are fantastic catholic boys schools that I will also consider.

People are always publicly condemning tutoring a child, then secretly tutor theirs, move to a more affluent area to get in the best catchment areas etc (separate issue)

Please can we just focus on the intention of the thread which is to compare the two tuition options

OP you misunderstand I am tutoring my child but started in Year 5. She was never tutored before and has always been top of the class in all academic subjects. Her 11+ tuition is enjoyable for her and a big part of it is reading and talking through and learning voacb

The first thing you need to do is work out if you are trying to put a square peg in a round hole, selective schools are an intense experience and not for everyone and to truly enjoy it you need to be easily in the top 10% without too much effort. The 11+ option is NOT the best for everyone. Does your son want this. DD made the decision herself in the last term of Year 4 to start tutoring

I liken it to this. Its like training for a marathon, no one can run a marathon cold so you need to do a certain amount of training. But your starting point to train for a marathon should be able to run 10k easily and in a good time. If you cant do that you cant run a marathon.

Of your two options Option 1 is hothousing far to much and is too intense to start at Year 4. Option 2 is pretty much what we have, an hour a week in a group of 6 to go through the curriculum and then practice tests so she is at the top of her field.

What quartz said. I have done a little tutoring now towarda end of year 5 and some familiarisation with verval reasoning. I do think they need to fmailiarise themselves with exam materials.

But extensive drilling from beginning of year 4 is in noones interests.

Round us most people start 1-1 tutoring (tutor comes to your house) in year 5. One session a week should be enough. You might want to do 10 minute tests daily in addition which you can administer yourself. I would also look into mock tests in year 5. We did 2 and that was enough for DS to get used to the format of a formal exam. Make sure your child is reading regularly and talk about vocab. Don't go overboard!!

Op where are you? In London it is highly competitive, and the norm to start in year 4.

In other areas it is different.

Personally I would focus less on the setting, and what they are offering. Can your son do a sample of each before committing?

My daughter would have hated 1-3 on a Saturday and so would I tbh so that would be a factor for us....... she is having one to one tuition from home, is that an option for you? She’s done a couple of groups as well in holidays etc. The two work differently -
If you’re motivated by keeping up with the people around you then a group is good. If they’re just going to distract you, make you feel pressured then not so much.

I feel like you’re not 100% about either option? If you tell us your area you might get some recommendations. I’d post this on the education board as well.

My son goes to grammar and was tutored, is keeping up and doing great just FYI 😊.

Can’t wait for it to be over now, not long for us! Wish us luck 😅 x

Thank you so much everyone!

Teddybearboy ** it is positive to hear a success story on here regarding tuition, I know of people in real life also tutored and doing well at grammar school

We are in south London and targeting mainly the Sutton Grammar Schools

Son enjoys the competition and when set timed specific tasks will excel but he can sometimes get distracted amongst others

DD is also going for the Sutton grammar schools as well but we are in catchment are you as that does make a huge difference

DS had 45 minutes once a week with homework they gave him. No more than 30 minutes worth.

One child in the group was booked in for two sessions a day, every day for the whole of the six week summer holiday.

DS sailed through. The poor child under so much pressure didn't.

If a child , any child needs so much tuition to try to get them into grammar, then they will crumble once in.
I have seen it so often and it's a bloomin shame.
The ones that do well are those that are naturally academic.
It's no shame for a child to go to a non grammar school, and some will excel there and be happy.

Some, as in the ones that were hothouse for grammar but didn't pass,
ITS NOT A FAILURE

its so difficult isnt it because the school says dont tutor and then do a test on the entire Year 6 curriculum!

OP you need a balance so as I said DD (from Year 5) has an hour a week class that has taught her the curriculum and practiced exam skills.

She has done two mock tests one via Wallington Boys and one done via Mocktestmasters. Her first stage scores in this have been very good so she has a second stage practice test as well.

In the week she does the odd Bond test and reads and learns new words.

That for me is sufficient as I said before its about training up the skills so they are match fit

Trafalgar

'If he needs that amount of tutoring then he is not grammar school material. I used to work in a grammar school in a pastoral role and it was very obvious in the first half term which students had been extensively tutored to get in. This all stops and suddenly they are struggling to keep up with their peers and their self esteem and confidence plummet. "

Same here, I worked for many years doing the same and couldn't agree more, I saw so many boys, so dreadfully unhappy and not coping, whereas if they had gone into comprehensive, they would have been in the top band and full of confidence.

I would get a 1 to 1 tutor