To think you shouldn’t treat a 5 month old like this?

[ScoopsAhoy]

I was at a family meet up earlier this week, just in one of the local pubs. A couple (who I’ll call John and Sue, and are part of my extended family) have a lovely little 5 month old boy, that, when they’re not trying to palm off on someone else, shut in his pram with the cover over so he screams in the dark.
The baby was screaming almost solidly for over 3 hours in the pub; John or Sue would take him out of the pram, jiggle him for a couple of minutes then pass him on to the next person until the child had done a route round the entire table, back to his parents. Who would then put him in his pram still crying, pull the cover over so it was dark and jiggle it vigorously. When this didn’t work they would tut and roll their eyes at each other and the process would begin again.
To give some backstory, at a family do a couple of months ago I noticed John buggered off to socialise, leaving Sue with their baby. Sue passed him over to my cousin and went off herself. Eventually cousin gave Sue her child back, Sue passed him over to someone else and the whole process was repeated.
I have a child myself so I get you sometimes need a break, it’s hard. But when you’re child is clearly in distress they probably want mum or dad not to be passed around a whole group of people.
Fully prepared to be flamed but AIBU to think it’s just a bit cruel and bloody parent your child yourself?

That is concerning...also very rude to the other people in the pub. Our eldest child was a Velcro baby. We just held him a lot. Obviously we are happy to pass him on to other people if they wanted him as he really didn’t care who was giving attention so long as it didn’t stop but we didn’t leave him to cry. There is a difference between wanting a break/being fine with other people having your child and neglecting them.

I have a 5 month old baby and this genuinely gives me heart palpitations. I'd have definitely said to them "maybe the pub isn't the best place for your baby as he's not settling"

If you are close to them, maybe have a stern word about "looking after your own child"

If it continues I'd contact SS to see what support can be offered to them if they are finding it overwhelming.

I'm disabled, with a lactose intolerant baby who has horrific reflux and constipation problems, so I'm definitely not in receipt of an "easy baby" but I've never once let her cry alone for more than a minute.

Read up on "learned helplessness" and see what damage it can do to a baby (I also have a psychology degree)

Luckingfovely attitudes like yours just enable child abuse and neglect. This is clearly neglect, two parents whose priority is enjoying themselves, not making sure their very young baby’s needs are met. From what the OP says, this is a pattern, not a one off, and nothing to do with medical needs.

It’s shit and you are absolutely right to judge, OP. Until behaviour like this is seen as totally socially unacceptable, as long as so many people tie themselves up in knots trying to excuse it, we are still going to have the major problems we have with child abuse and neglect.

It's the parents responsibility to look after their baby,and if they are in some pub etc,they should try and calm the crying child,and if this does not work,they should go outside to push the pram.and try this for calming, or otherwise,go home.

It's not fair that other customers have to listen to a screaming baby,,or even witness the, Pass the baby around scenario. It's not being judgemental, it's just common sense.

That poor baby :( I have a 3 month old boy and reading that broke my heart. When my baby cries all I want to do is cuddle him better.

Poor baby. YANBU. Did anyone feed him in this time? Plus as pp said 3 hours is quite a long awake time at 5 months, did no one try and settle him for a nap?

My now 2.5 year old would sometimes need to put in his pram to cry it out for a few minutes when he was severely overtired and desperately needed a nap. No amount of cuddles from me or passing around or what not would have avoided the need to grin and bare it for a few minutes of him screaming in his covered over pram before he settled. If that makes me an awful parent then so be it. Wouldn't have done it in a pub though!

Bugsymalonemumof2

Surely there's a difference between a few minutes and three hours?

@Marshmallow91 that’s very helpful, thank you. I’ll look up learned helplessness. We get on reasonably well but it’s complicated (as families are). I don’t want to be too outing but they are both teachers and feel their knowledge of childcare far outstrips others.They can be quite forward in telling others how to parent but I’m not sure they’d take too kindly to it themselves and I don’t want to cause upset or create a rift/ family drama.
Baby was fed at the pub in this time.
I’d just also like to add a disclaimer that this is not a teacher bashing thread- lots of my friends are teachers and not like this at all.

I know loads of couples who have had a baby and continue with their previous social life etc, two sets of grandparents there to pick up the slack. No one seems to judge them...

To be honest, when I visit family at least I do tend to hand my baby over and spend a lot less time with her, but this is because I am aware that they are desperate for a hug and I get her all the time. A stranger looking on might think I wasn't overly fussed about her because I'm not helicoptering around her, but this honestly has no reflection on how I am with her at home or alone, it's just that I'm able to spend a few hours not fawning over her to let her develop bonds with family and friends.

That said, I do tend to take her back if she's being a handful and if she's been crying in a public setting for a long time then I would probably take her out because I hate being a nuisance, but lots of parents do value teaching children above strangers convenience and they may simply be trying to train the baby to cope without constant attention, and to be comfortable around others. It doesn't necessarily mean they are neglectful at home.

AndBreatheJustBreathe people are judging failure to meet the baby's needs. If the baby were being looked after appropriately rather than left to scream in a pub, people obviously wouldn't judge. We choose to have babies knowing whether or not we have two sets of grandparent babysitters round the corner, and the children of those of us who have babies without much grandparent support deserve to have their needs met exactly as much as those with more hands on support.

Having worked in pubs I can tell you this behaviour is sadly not unusual. We had parents dump babies in buggies outside the gate of the pub garden so they could carry on drinking past the time the license requires under 18s to go home. I really hope these parents are just like this when they are out and trying to have adult time, if they ignore their DC this much all the time then I feel even more sorry for the DC After an hour of screaming a decent parent would head home, and accept that the baby isn't in a fit state to be out at that time. You wonder why people bother having children when they dump them on someone else at any given opportunity.

@MrsCBY, thank you and I agree that child welfare is everyone’s business.

YANBU if a child is that distressed it is crying for such a long period of time it shouldn't be in a pub in a pram. When my DCs were small and cranky I would pick my battles. It's bloody hard and it is nice to get out once in a while but not to the detriment of your child.

Babies don't need to be "trained not to need attention" - babies need attention. As they grow up they need different, less hands on and less constant attention. This happens naturally as they develop. It's not something that you "train" any more than you "train" a baby to grow physically taller

Perhaps child development should be introduced as a compulsory, examined subject for every teenager so people could stop believing that they have to "train" babies to reach naturally occurring developmental phases.

I don't really think it matters why the child was crying. He clearly wasn't okay in that environment and quite aside from how irritating it would have been for other customers, the parents should have put their child's needs first and left. That's what you do when you have kids.

If you're genuinely concerned for the child's welfare you need to report it.

YANBU. It breaks my heart hearing my DC cry, I get incredibly stressed out and need to resolve it ASAP and make them feel better. I thought that was maternal instinct really... I’ve never understood how parents can let their baby cry for hours, it's so heartbreaking.

It doesn’t sound great, but I don’t think it’s fair to judge. Babies are stressful and they might have had no sleep on both occasions.

You can't win as a parent really. DS would have been exactly like this if we had taken him to pubs at night. Hee would have been beside himself with tiredness but too stimulated to.sleep.

We didn't go out in the evening much at all because he needed a proper routine but we got a lot of judgement for being PFB parents who spent too much time worrying about ds's sleep and routine.

As I said you can't win really.

It’s not just trips to the pub at night. It’s at any social occasion regardless of time of day or venue. My 15 year old niece shoots out of the room as soon as she see’s them now after being left with their baby for over an hour at a party while John and Sue chatted and got their lunch. Which my niece missed out on as she was unable to leave the baby and felt unable to ask for help (only 15 and very shy). By the time she was reprieved the lunch buffet had been eaten.
If it was just a one off evening at the pub I wouldn’t be so bothered.

It's hard to say without knowing what sort of baby they have really. Is you have one that screams constantly there's very little you can do other than trying to preserve your own sanity.

I think of I had read this just after having my first I would be horrified. She was a calm little thing, I never left her to cry and was an attchmebt parent. My second at that age had undiagnosed allergies and would scream at the top of her lungs for hours at a time e regardless. If that's the case with these guys then I sympathise and think it's good they are getting out and about so as not to become isolated (as I did - resulting in post Natal depression) and availing themselves of help.

I apologise for the typos, I have a cracked phone screen.