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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

451 replies

CopperPatch · 20/07/2019 10:31

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

OP posts:
Tippexy · 21/07/2019 00:26

Exactly that Catherine.

When you have a family dealing with cancer, children with special needs, parents in nursing homes, ever-increasing workloads, not knowing where you next mortgage payment is coming from, if your job contract will be renewed, mental health difficulties, do you have enough money to get the car you need for work through its MOT... does the fact the weather that year is 0.1 degree higher than last year really go on your radar?

Saracen · 21/07/2019 00:30

OP, I am one of the people you describe.

I can't say why others are behaving this way. I can say why I am.

For me, all the talking, sharing, reading on the subject while not actually taking significant action is because I am so frightened. I am inclined to ignore the climate emergency completely. To start discussing it is the first step. I am not ready for more. I will be, and pretty soon I think.

I've never been to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, but I imagine some of the people who attend haven't yet quit drinking or even cut back. Maybe all they can manage yet is just acknowleging they are alcoholics and sitting in the room while others talk about their own problems caused by alcoholism.

I'm sure it's hard to be patient with us. It would be hard to be patient with an alcoholic relative who'd started turning up to AA meetings but hadn't given up the booze yet and was still causing huge problems for the rest of the family. You'd still take it as cause for hope though wouldn't you, rather than telling them they were being hypocritical and should stop going to AA?

73kittycat73 · 21/07/2019 00:43

I don't know why ChardonnaysPrettySister is being picked on, she sounded perfectly fine to me?

themmatricc · 21/07/2019 01:41

We invented capitalism. We exploited the land, resources and people of other nations around the world to funnel in resources to build our wealth. you have to be seriously stupid to make this point the soviet union had an appalling record on the environment and they were communist

themmatricc · 21/07/2019 01:43

Thing is, that probably wouldn't help. I'm in Australia and we can already see the terrible effects of climate change serious question how do we stop the climate changing the world is 4.5 billion years old and the climate has always changed

DaintySong · 21/07/2019 01:46

It's terrifying, I've had massive anxiety about this. You look around and everyone seems to be just carrying on like there's nothing to worry about and just making it worse. Then you hear people like on here saying there's no point as you alone are not going to make any difference.. and no one does anything! There's billions of people on the planet that might be thinking the same and instead could actually do at least something to not make it worse! Such a simple thing everyone can do like not eating animal products that makes a huge difference in all sorts of ways! Or even reducing it, of course it's better than doing nothing. Or flying. The problem is people don't seem to understand that changing their lives and things they're used to now might save us and our environment and we'd have options to come up with better ways and live well but if we do nothing people will be forced to lose everything anyway and be in a lot worse situation! How can you not worry about your kids and grandkids? Can you imagine a world where you're running out of food and freshwater? Most people can't.

groundanchochillipowder · 21/07/2019 02:00

I'm with Tippex, Ghana and Catherine here.

DaintySong · 21/07/2019 02:13

themmatricc
Have you not heard of greenhouse effect? Do you think that climate scientists don't know what they're talking about?
We need to not only reduce the emissions but also absorb what's already out there. Some countries have started growing trees on a large scale, everyone should be doing it, another simple and relatively cheap but very important part of solution. People only now starting to realise how important nature is.

EdtheBear · 21/07/2019 03:03

In my mind individuals can only do so much. Govements and the UN need to do more to reduce car use and deal with transport pollution and deal with the plastic in clothing.

It's easy to bang on about too many cars. But stop and think, before easy transport people lived close to their workplaces. Then they started commuting by train and bus. Trains are set up to go to city centres big hubs.
Then came "out of town", industrial estates, shopping centers and office parks. Public Transport to them is an after thought. For most people it's 2-3 buses at least. So car becomes the most easy / sensible option.

Back in the day, products were made locally or at least in the UK. Cotton was imported processed and made into garments in the UK.
Now it's hard to find any high street clothing that's actually made in the UK. Everything seems to be India, Bangladesh or Vietnam. Which adds to the transport pollution.

Garments aren't even just cotton / natural materials. It's become harder in the last few years to find clothing without plastic (polyester, nylon) added. Which adds to the micro plastics in the seas (fibres breaking in the wash). The added plastics make it harder for garments to eventually break down in landfill. Yes I do know clothes should be recycled But ultimately there comes a point went your t-shirt becomes a rag nobody wants.

MangoFeverDream · 21/07/2019 05:40

I don’t see how we can reverse the tide without completely destroying quality of life. I’d rather adapt than cut back on everything

I’m with you here. Would rather adapt as green technology isn’t up to the job of generating energy for a modern economy. I don’t trust any green activist who won’t talk about nuclear.

What the planet needs is it’s forests back.
I know man made pollution plays a big part in climate change but how can the planet heal if the forests keep being destroyed?

This is a good point too, and you can bet that if there are energy shortages, people will make up the difference by using chopped wood.

Climate change was first "mentioned" in the early 1970s, by the way, and nobody took much notice

And we’d be fine now if green activists were supportive of carbon-nuclear nuclear power, instead they were farting around trying to encourage green tech that just never lives up to promises. France generates 70% of their power by nuclear while Germany will likely cut down ancient forest for coal because the green future they envisioned isn’t ready to power their society.

MangoFeverDream · 21/07/2019 06:06

Should be carbon-neutral nuclear

Tessalectus · 21/07/2019 06:14

I would hazard a guess that most people are complacent for two reasons: a) lack of actual buy-in from the public and b) far too many conflated issues under the "environmental catastrophe" umbrella, which makes it seem like it's an impossibly huge task.

a) will change over time. Buy-in needs convincing arguments, especially when we are all being asked to significantly change our lifestyles towards less comfort and potentially more work. But, of course, as we witness the actual effects on a larger scale and once we become directy affected, buy-in changes. Let's face it, the question of "what's in it for me" is naturally built into our survival instincts.

b) is much easier to tackle (yes, it actually is). Huge issues need to be broken down into their smaller chunks. It is not one massive environmental disaster, it is an accumulation of many issues, which will result in one.

Non-biodegradable materials.
Mostly, that means plastics. There is a place for them in our lives (for example, when containing highly corrosive substances), but it is the over-use, which causes the issues. Will become far less of an issue over time once our crude oil reserves are sufficiently depleted, but in the meantime we can all do our bit through large-scale refusal to buy unnecessary plastic.

By that I mean switching to anything biodegradable over plastic, any time it is feasible. How feasible that is will be determined by one's ease of access (which is cosumer-driven, even environmental consciousness is increasingly being made into profitable business) and capital, or lack thereof. The latter of which is where buy-in is necessary and maybe making minimalism vogue again.

Reduce, re-use, recyle, in that order, needs to be imprinted into our subconscious. The former can be influenced financially if need be - I don't need my 30th pair of heels and would have far fewer shoes if I didn't have the money to buy them. Yes, it does hit the poorest of society the hardest, but so will a change in resources. Of course, we can hope for buy-in, but that will take far longer to take effect.
Re-using and recycling relies on other skills, which we need to educate our children (and ourselves) for. The Right to Repair bill is a great step in the right direction, but useless if people don't know how to - we need to bring back metal- and woodwork, textiles, arts and crafts, cookery and science at the heart of our education system, rather than focusing on academia, which large swathes of the population cannot access anyway.

The greenhouse effect.
What always astonishes me is how little people understand about greenhouse gases. We focus on carbon dioxide while failing to mention that water vapour is a far bigger issue (and that other gases, such as methane, oxygen and nitrogen are also greenhouse gases - and, to an extent, necessary ones, too). A PP mentioned that a 0.1 degree increase in temperature is insignificant, but fails to see that even a tiny increase will result in greater absorbence of carbon dioxide into the oceans, in itself a concern more evaporation from our oceans, therefore resulting in an ever-accelerating greenhouse effect.

Perhaps it's because we can directly influence our carbon dioxide and methane emissions, as opposed to water vapour, but as has been pointed out on a few threads, any volcano eruption is going to undo our efforts to curb this - therefore, our focus should be less on our emissions as such and more on direct absorbtion, such as re-planting forests.

Decreasing biodiversity
Now this is where the shit really hits the fan. Biology is always seen as the softer of the three main sciences, but it is also where we have the least knowledge.
Ecosystems are finely balanced - they can shift and re-adapt over time, if left to their own devices. And this is where the issue is: while we focus on saving cute panda bears (which really should have become naturally extinct by now) we fail to see that killing off yet another ant species has a far greater effect on our ecosystem. While trying to save fluffy Siberian tigers (which are far less fluffy in real life when they try to bite your face off) we squash a few spiders in our path, which actually reduce our ability to cope with other insect pests. We treat soil to reduce soil bacteria and fungi to save our crops and make our gardens look pretty, but do not see that they actually re-introduce nutrients into our soil, which we then have to artificially recreate through Haber, then mis-judge how much fertiliser is actually needed and kill off a couple of sea life creatures in the process, because we don't realise what eutrophication is.

What we need to do instead of trying to interfere (intelligent as we are, we will never fully understand the complexities of biological ecosystems - far too many life forms and interactions involved) is actually create more large nature reserves, which are left to their own devices. Not re-plant lots of trees of the same species and congratulate ourselves on reducing biodiversity further in the process by creating monohabitats.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but education is needed in so many directions and a far bigger importance should be placed on scientific education if we want to survive as a species. Then maybe buy-in will come about far quicker, too.

/rant

Nonstop1 · 21/07/2019 06:55

Stopping using products (there are so many) with palm oil also helps. Deforestation is a big concern, surely, even if you’re firmly in the ‘what can I do about it’ camp...

exLtEveDallas · 21/07/2019 06:56

I do the obvious little things; recycle, reuse etc but I cannot help but think, what's the point? The little I do is going to have no impact whatsoever. And I suppose I 'don't bother' worrying about it, because unless the whole world joins in, nothing will change. Ambivalent is a good word for it, that is exactly as I feel.

I do try not to use so much plastic, I carry a coffee cup and a DD always has a water bottle and so on, but then I watch American 'foodie' shows on TV and every single person eating has a plastic or styrofoam plate - so what's the point?

MsTSwift · 21/07/2019 07:01

The difficulty as I see it is our whole political and economic system is based on consumption and growth. That can’t continue indefinitely but no one has come up with an alternative. People are rightly resistant to authoritative governments telling us to have smaller families and rationing flights etc but that’s what’s needed.

Cocoabutterformula · 21/07/2019 07:22

Tessa brilliant post.

I'm in the 'we're totally fucked' camp but at the same time will try my best to avoid and do what I can. I'm slightly heartened at how suddenly everyone is discussing these issues after near on 40 years of them being very unfashionable, whether it really translates into anything solid I just don't know.

FriendsForeverForNow · 21/07/2019 07:23

Most people are selfish. Not a judgment just an observation. We have a situation where the smartest women are barely having children and idiocracy rules.

nellodee · 21/07/2019 07:39

A note of positivity - all these projections are based on the end of the century. That's as far away in the future as 1940 was in the past. When you think of the technological advances we have had since that point, it is almost impossible to imagine where we will be in the same amount of time in the future. Fusion would be a game changer, as would quantum computing. We are amazing creatures.

Gin96 · 21/07/2019 07:43

We need to stop concreting over the countryside and decimating forests, human population needs to drop in numbers drastically across the world not just in Europe. This isn’t going to happen more people need more housing. I went to a council meeting the other day, they said everyone needs to use the air con less, then in the next breath they had given planning permission across a beautiful bit of countryside for 4 thousand houses, I could cry, there are deer, rabbits, no end insects, they will loose their habitat 😞

SootySueandSweeptoo · 21/07/2019 07:43

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Pineapplefish · 21/07/2019 07:44

My best guess is that the human race is likely to be wiped out by a catastrophic environmental event within the next 100 years.

madcatladyforever · 21/07/2019 07:46

Nothing will be done until we are all dead. Humans are too lazy, selfish and greedy.

MangoFeverDream · 21/07/2019 07:51

have smaller families and rationing flights etc but that’s what’s needed

We already have smaller families, most developed countries would be stabilizing or even declining if not for immigration—this is a huge elephant in the room, note no one yet has suggested cutting immigration at all, even though you are massively increasing a person’s carbon footprint by moving them to a developed country.

Also, top down control methods always leads to abuses. The people at the top get to have more while the little people suffer. Already you see this; we little people take commercial while the elite take private planes and such. Prince William lectures us about overpopulation yet chooses to have three kids that will each have massive carbon footprints.

We need cheap, carbon neutral energy like nuclear power; we don’t need to go back to a pre-modern way, and we won’t without force....

IceniSky · 21/07/2019 07:51

I try to do as much as possible, and have focused on planting a wild garden with lots of different trees however, I really think the people who can make a difference are not.

I have been thinking about what skills my child would need to survive, if it is surviveable, as I dont really know what will actually happen. We do a lot of outside hiking, growing food, fire making, shelter building, martial arts, navigation for fun. Although I understand probably all futile.

Silvercatowner · 21/07/2019 07:57

We're fucked as a species. There is nothing we can do individually that will stop this catastrophe. We were fucked when we stopped being hunter-gatherers and even more fucked when we became industrialised.

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