I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

[CopperPatch]

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

It is one thing to decide that there's no point in doing anything since the problem is too big (although that isn't personally an approach I agree with and is not what the experts currently say - see the recent david attenborough documentary) but quite another to be the sort of selfish fuckwit who comes on and trumpets their negative actions with glee .

If everyone did more we would help to at least slow down the problem so that solutions can be found to deal with the inevitable problems we are facing.

We are taking steps in the right direction. We now eat meat free for half of the week and eat very little meat from ruminators. We reduce, reuse, recycle as much as we can, our house is biomass fuelled (from our own supply so no transport costs either), we have cut down on flying going from our former three overseas holidays to a maximum of one (I'm working on this being UK based..), we think carefully about the items we buy and whether they are really necessary or whether if we need the item we could buy second hand, we have planted a large wildflower meadow, we are shortly getting two hives of bees, we have chickens and use the eggs, we have a large vegetable garden, we've planted a small apple orchard and 1000 native hedging plants, I'm consciously trying not to buy items covered in single use plastics, I no longer buy cotton wool or cleaning cloths, I dilute cleaning products by 3/4 to make them last longer, we don't use bleach at all, we use eco friendly products whenever possible, we line dry clothes except in the depths of winter when we use the pulley maid etc etc

It's small steps and we are taking more each day. It isn't enough to make any difference on its own (although the DC will hopefully continue the efforts when they are older) but if everyone thought about these issues and didn't just make excuses it would help.

Everything you try to do helps.

Years ago people drank and then drove. It has now become socially unacceptable. The more people who make an effort, the more it becomes normal to do so, and the more socially unacceptable it is to be selfish and waste energy.

Ghanagirl you're really not coming across at all well here.

@user12398798768657
Thing is people can say they are recycling living off the land and tell others what they should be doing but firstly we have no idea if it’s the truth and secondly white westerners have form for telling POC how best to live their lives until they’re proven wrong and it’s two late.

Everything you try to do helps

But if you have kids you are just making the problem worse and worse. Anyone who’s done 2% of research realises this. So when you have people like AI having the nerve to lecture someone like me who doesn’t have kids. It’s like people flying around of private jets lecturing about climate change.

“Researchers from Lund University in Sweden found having one fewer child per family can save “an average of 58.6 tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions per year”.

“living car-free saves about 2.4 tonnes of C02 equivalent per year, while eating a plant-based diet saves 0.8 tonnes of C02 equivalent a year.”

See. It’s not even close. Let’s stop burying our heads in the sand.

Ghanagirl please stop attacking me.

Also, I don’t appreciate your abusive Private Message.

@BlackeyedGruesome
I don’t drink*

@Hithere12
Firstly there’s no such thing as “the race card” it’s phrase used to shut down someone who has objected to being subjected to racist behaviour.
Also I never denied being a”westerner”
I was replying to a poster who said I should care more because my family is from Africa.
By the Way DH’s from Africa not myself.

Yes I see @groundanchochillipowder!

Catherine and Chilli Thing, you are in denial not of climate change but of the fact there are some people prepared to make sacrifices you will not.

I'm aware there are people making sacrifices that I am not prepared to make. I've said as much. I thought I had been addressing those people on the thread, no? I've also explained why I'm not prepared to make them. Have I been dissembling? It is you who find the concept of people not doing what you perceive as being necessary difficult, as evidenced by your reply.

You do not believe that a small but growing minority do not travel overseas, that a small but growing minority of those do not even renew their passports.

Oh I believe. Should I put my hand on my heart and say it out loud? I just do not agree that that minority will become a impactful majority. Whilst we're declining the odd flight, the emerging middle classes in the third world will want to (rightly) see the world they now have a part of. Neither are the rich going to decline visiting their houses in other parts of the world - and people aren't going to cut their families in other countries off either.

This alone scares you more than climate change. You are scared because, unlike Trump, you know you are wrong but do not have the strength to confront that.

To the contrary I think you are scared. Scared because you know that you have become galvanised too late, something you are in 'denial' about. And you are projecting your fear onto others, namely joe blogs lay people who are not responsible for the mess we're in and already struggle in their lives. Instead of directing your sarcasm and derision at those truly responsible - irresponsible scientists, heavy industry, big business, large shareholders, and governments who adulterate with the above daily, - you want to off-load you guilt onto those who can do the least, onto people struggling under a mountain of other issues which are directly impacting their lives. And you feel threatened when they refuse to comply with your POV.

I am pragmatic. The current economic model stays in place. As some have said real change would require enforced legislation, and interference in peoples lives. An enforced 2 child max policy. A severe curb on immigration. A hugely inflated airflight tax (which wouldn't harm the rich) and justifications of need to fly, Extra tax on 2 cars, reduction in choice and variety of food, drastic reduction in goods being imported and exported, with decline in internet business who provide goods and services from abroad. Confiscation of land for the purposes of rewilding or reforesting. Implementing a not so voluntary euthanasia as a means to manage population of elderly. All would need to be imposed. Around the world.

Sorry, but I'm not prepared to see women being dragged kicking and screaming to abortion clinics as happened in China. Or a black trade in unwanted babies. I'm not happy for restriction for choice that falls heavily on women and the poor and leaves the higher MC and Elites off the hook, and I'm not happy to see an economical collapse - the poor have suffered under austerity already. And I'm not happy to be dictated to. Vote for your own demise.

Stop telling yourself fairy stories about how China are just sooo green these days and how reusing a coffee cup and putting extra plastic in the recycle bin will save us and be real about what is truly necessary.

This has been an interesting read.

Ghanagirl I usually have a great deal of respect for you when you post but you sound almost gleeful about refusing to change.

@user12398798768657 Thing is people can say they are recycling living off the land and tell others what they should be doing but firstly we have no idea if it’s the truth and secondly white westerners have form for telling POC how best to live their lives until they’re proven wrong and it’s two late.

Err, I said nothing about race. And neither am I white.

@CitadelsofScience
Not gleeful just not interested in people who have the privilege of owning land and living sustainably then crowing about whilst telling others that we should
1)use public transport which If you work in the community carryon equipment and doing home visits is impossible.
2) saying we should not fly when the person has probably flown from an early age and has now decided because they are no longer flying everyone else has to stop.
3) if everyone decides to live off the land who will work in health, law enforcement etc etc.
4) most people living off the land have inherited it so are wealthier than average.
I could go on.
I am 2nd generation British and DH is African plus I have family all over the world am I supposed to never see them on the say so of Mumsnetters some of whom have said incredibly racist things in the past.
When I stated earlier that I do recycle, use my own mug, do meet free Monday’s etc.
A poster said it wasn’t enough somebody else said if have children that’s bad for the planet, I’m sorry but if people actually think not having children is the way to save the planet then don’t have them but stop telling me how to live.

If you are not interested then why do you keep posting and sending PMs?

Unfortunately the majority of people are like @ghanagirl and probably agree that things need to change in theory but like fuck are they going to make any actual sacrifices to help.

@user12398798768657
Err, I said nothing about race. And neither am I white.
I didn’t say you mentioned race it was another poster.
Also posters who suddenly declare they are “not white” to service their own agenda when never mentioned previously are particularly annoying.

@ChardonnaysPrettySister
So now I’m not allowed to post on a public because I don’t agree with you?

You claim not to be interested in posters opinions so I wonder what your reasons for posting and sending PMs are.,

*@tequilasunrises

Unfortunately the majority of people are like @ghanagirl and probably agree that things need to change in theory but like fuck are they going to make any actual sacrifices to help.*
If you read my post rather than just signaling your own virtue I’ve made it clear what we do as a family but I’m not interested in posters who think having children is a threat to the environment as it’s idiotic.
Like every animal on this planet we are designed to reproduce.
You can choose not to but you can’t deny others the right to do something which is a normal biological urge as for not flying long haul if your family doesn’t live in the same country how do you suggest you maintain in contact.

@ChardonnaysPrettySister
Your being ridiculous I sent you one PM and I said I wasn’t interested in doing what you want.

I didn’t say you mentioned race it was another poster. Also posters who suddenly declare they are “not white” to service their own agenda when never mentioned previously are particularly annoying.

@ghanagirl WTAF. Why would I mention my race or colour? This post had nothing to do with race until you brought it up.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/22/air-travellers

Carbon ticket surcharge in planning.

You sent me a PM with all fucking this and what am I doing for the environment, which didn’t read like you weren’t interested, and which you then withdrew.

And don’t @ me.

I’m not virtue signalling. And I’m also not denying anyone anything. Just pointing out that most people, you included, don’t want to make the actual changes to their lifestyle (eg going without your 4 holidays and 2 SUVs) that could make a real difference if EVERYONE was on board.

A lot of the other posters seem like they do have those good intentions and want to make the sacrifices but know that it’s futile unless change comes on some massive scale. Which it won’t. Because most people are like you, you see.

It seems my link’s gone bad, never mind the story is in most papers today.