Do you agree with this?

[borderlinebun]

So I've recently started Dialectical Behavioural Therapy and one of the first things in the handbook is to accept the assumptions about people. As you never know what someone is going through, we're supposed to just accept that ALL people are doing their best ALL the time. I just can't agree. Yes, many people are doing their best, but surely not everyone?! And certainly not all the time?! Personally I think it justifies laziness, most of us are capable of trying harder. I challenged it in the group therapy session which started a debate so I thought I'd put it to the good people of Mumsnet. AIBU or is this statement ridiculous a bit simplistic?

It's a BioSocial Model and it does have a Protocol for PTSD based on Prolonged Exposure.

I'm confused.

Assumption 1 states that people are doing the best they can.
Assumption 6 states that people must do better.

Which is it? Or am I reading it wrongly? (quite possible )

And the spine of DBT is Mindfulness which in this instance is based on Zen Buddhism. Other ideas from DBT for example Radical Acceptance also come from Zen Buddhism.

Marsh Linehan who has BPD herself, developed DBT after she recognised standard CBT was not helpful for people with BPD type presentations.

NiceLegs it's a dialectic. 2 opposing poles and a synthesis is sought whereby truth is found in both stances.

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace Doing the best you can, doesn't mean you can't improve.

Well, they probably are doing the best they can in that moment. If they were able to choose to rise above it all and be a lovely warm person, surely they would? No one actively chooses to be a dick for every moment and be hated for it.
Isn’t the point that you’ll never know what they are dealing with or how hard it is for them, so just step away from it and be the bigger person?
I’m not sure dissecting the specific words is helping you deal with what you are there to do ....?

Or maybe they just forgot about using their indicators and they wish they had and they feel bad.

You sound cross.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound judgemental. I have BPD and ASD so I sometimes struggle to see other peoples' perspective, hence why I asked. The list is a bit confusing and as PP said it's a bit contradictory. This was only my first group session (it lasts 12 months) so obviously I have things I need to work on.

Bollocks. I'm supposed to be "doing my best" to get 20 x blog posts written by tomorrow.

Instead I'm watching Phil and Kirstie and twatting around on MN.

You're taking it FAR too literally. It's not that it's necessarily true literally but that if your mindset is as such you're likely to be more compassionate to not only others but also yourself.

It's a kind presumption to make about others and makes you less judgemental all round.

I think most people are doing the best they can in that moment. It might not be the best they can possibly do, but it’s the best they can do in that particular set of circumstances.

We’re all human with flaws and bad days which affect how we act and make us not be our best selves.

I think it’s just saying that people don’t wake up in the morning and decide to be a horrible person. Everyone is dealing with shit of varying levels, and they do the best they can in the circumstances.

Its total bs but its a way to get you to think I suppose

For example last Sunday I needed to iron my work uniform. The ironing board was even out ready except I was sitting on the sofa and couldn't be bothered, so I didn't. I wasnt trying my best I was being a lazy shit tbh. I could have ironed it but I didn't

My work colleagues could either get angry about me being a lazy shit or accept that I was probably trying my best. Either way my work uniform was creased but one option is better for them, because being angry doesn't change it. (Unless they are my boss)

Okay this is starting to make more sense. I take everything literally. So it's suggesting we just assume everyone is trying as we don't know what they're going through and they're not necessarily being stupid/rude/lazy? The indicator thing was an example, but I do think people can try a bit harder with their driving.

But on the other side, I doubt anyone goes out of their way NOT to do their best...no-one surely thinks 'oh actually I'm going to be a complete arsehole today' do they? By that logic people are doing the best they're capable of right at that moment-it may be shit but it's what they're capable of.

Is this STEPPS? I did it last year and don't remember these assumptions. After STEPPS I didn't fancy Stairways and underwent CAT privately-found it much more helpful.

@TheFutureMrsBellamy it's Dialectical Behavioural Therapy. It's relatively new, it's American. It's the best therapy for BPD so I'm hoping it'll help me cope with life a bit better.

The STEPPS course is for BPD/EUPD and uses DBT. Mine was a 20 week group course. So I imagine it must run along the same lines. Good luck with it anyway.

100% agree with you

It’s plainly nonsensical to claim that everyone is doing their best, and nobody “sets out to be nasty”.
The average mugger, burglar or rapist most definitely DOES set out to be nasty, and is usually tooled up for the purpose, with a knife, crowbar or date rape drugs as appropriate!
I know a few people who delight in deliberately picking arguments and stirring people up, as they get some warped pleasure from it. And I had violent and abusive parents who certainly weren’t trying their best at parenting.

All that can be said for the philosophy is that it can be kind to give people the benefit of any doubt. But that shouldn’t include being a gullible mug and potential victim.

@TheFutureMrsBellamy sorry I misunderstood. I haven't come across STEPPS yet but it's very new to me so it might be something I do later on. Group therapy is 6 months but they make you do it twice.

That's ok OP. Feel free to PM me if you've got any questions you'd rather not post on here. I personally found getting a diagnosis of a personality disorder a bit of a headfuck and it took a bit of adjusting to.

@TheFutureMrsBellamy thank you, that's very kind. Luckily I got my diagnosis years ago but it was a long wait for therapy. I've tried others but hopefully this is the one so I'm taking it very seriously!

I only got mine about 18 months ago...I'm 45 now 😱

This kind of thing about 'bad' people being deliberately nasty - even murder or child abuse) - they may still be being the best person they can.

It doesn't make their behaviour acceptable in anyway shape or form. BUT for whatever reason they don't know or believe the 'norms' apply to them or even don't care - but it isn't a choice not to care.

People who are lazy - they don't actually make the choice to be 'lazy'. They choose on occasion, not to be lazy because they know being lazy is not acceptable but their default is 'lazy' and not being lazy at any given time is a choice - being innately lazy isn't - some people are better than others at choosing not to be.

Just the same as another person's default is to constantly be on the move. They may choose to, for example, sit by the pool on holiday and read a book, within half an hour or so, they are getting fidgety and can't sit still for much longer.

It's as hard for an 'active' person to sit still as it is for a lazy person to be active. Often the lazy person is the one who is criticised but they are actually putting in more effort than the active one because 'active is good' so they just be who they are. They lazy person overcomes their natural way anything from 1 to 1000.s of times a day.

The person not indicating may be distracted - or not indicating may be a habit. They may be arrogant and think that it isn't necessary for them - but even that is an inherent or learned behaviour.

Lots of behaviour isn't acceptable and I am not excusing it but it's rarely a decision to be deliberately nasty and when it is, even that is without their control - they feel justified because of what has happened to them or they were born without a conscience or it's what they have grown up with and believe that everyone else behaves in the same way or some other reason that we don't know.