PDA - Pathological Demand Avoidance

[Porky54]

So I work in a mainstream school with SEND children. I have a new starter with undiagnosed PDA. Apparently my local area doesn’t diagnose that..? They are of quite low ability moved to several schools over the years, particularly when “demands” are put on them they become a school refuser. So my task is to teach them to read (reading age of below 6 years and in year 8) and to keep them in mainstream lessons. BUT I am struggling, doesn’t stay in class because they can’t read, or they are being asked to do too much, writing the date was to much I said I’ll do it for you - no then it’s not my work, so you write it- no I can’t my hand writing is too scruffy- use my laptop - I don’t like laptops (that is my daily battle) then will leave class because I’ve put to much pressure and stress and pressure on them. Does anyone else support or have a child with PDA that could perhaps give me some advice or recommend a book or website I could check out? I am a pretty patient person but I’m running out of ideas. I’ve even tried let’s play a game of your choice for 10 mins and work for 10 can’t do that your timing me I don’t like being timed so let’s play a game for as long as you want you tell me when your ready, I don’t like your games.... arghhhh I don’t want to pull any more of my hair out I will be bald like DH soon.

I'm sure you know the PDA falls on the Autism spectrum. There are lots of sites that have great scripts to use when working with children with PDA. It's essentially high anxiety rather than defiance or non compliance (although it feels like that). Its a need to control as much as a need to avoid. If you understand it as need to feel safe rather than reject you it gets easier! I'm playing with my toddler right now but will come back with some good links. Good luck

^^ has it.

One coping strategy we were taught was to give limited choices. Instead of "write the date" "no" "okay I'll write it" you would say something along the lines of "we need to get the date down, you can write it or I can". In the first scenario they cannot control the outcome bar refusing to do as they've been explicitly told, in the latter they can control the outcome.
It doesn't always work but it might be a start. Choice but a limited choice of a or b.

You become a master manipulator and make the activities you want the child to do seem like their idea.

Agree with sleep but the typical pda profile is average or above intelligence so either the low ability is a false presentation due to their natural avoidance or is genuine and lack of verbal comprehension makes them appear avoidant.

One strategy I have heard is to have a list of tasks to do that day and get them to choose which order to do them in so they feel in control.

I have a child with undiagnosed PDA.
I honestly wish I could help you, but I'm still trying to figure it out myself and she'll be 18 next month.

Sounds really hard. Will reply properly when less drunk

Trebla. - I know it’s associated with ASD and I looked in the national autistic website but I saw nothing on there on there that would actually help... I used to work with adults who had asd but I’ve never come across PDA before!

Sailorcherries- I tried the a and b choice thing today it didn’t work , they said I don’t like choosing and began kicking the wall because I had stressed them out.

Pickachew - they did admit today on a reading test they did last month, they didn’t really try because they don’t like tests. So that might be where the low reading age came from, but we were really firm with them and said after 15 minutes of trying to get them to sit down and even look at the paper, you don’t have a choice now sit down and do the test. It worked that one time (well it may it not have worked now because of them saying they didn’t really try). I don’t know really 5 years in education and I’ve not met anyone like this, my colleague is 12 years in and she said the same today... both run out of ideas.

Trixymalixy - I’m going to try the list on Monday and see where that goes, I don’t like seeing them stressed as I then feel like I’ve done a shit job at the end of the day hence why I’m awake at 3:30 on a Saturday morning questioning what I could do differently!

But thank you all and I look forward to more ideas coming soon!! X

You should post this in the special needs board - there are some people there with lots of experience and advice.

My daughter is demand avoidant when stressed. I avoid all direct questions, try and keep noise levels down, and give her space. Although this is obviously not so easy in a school environment! I find that using timers helps - so I say when the timer goes off, then this is happening. That way, I’m not asking her - it’s the timer. Sounds odd, but seems to work. Also, I will say “when you have done this, then this will happen” rather than asking her to do something directly. Watch out for transitions too - switching tasks can be tricky. I always use countdowns. Oh, and showing how to do something, rather than explaining it. Processing goes out of the window when she is stressed - do you have picture boards, to show what will happen during the day? That helps a lot.

I feel for you though - this is a really tough situation for you to be dealing with.

Just a thought but could the PDA be hiding dyslexia? Might that be an/another underlying reason not to like tests and writing, etc?

Does anyone actually diagnose PDA?

PDA isn’t always accepted as a diagnosis. Not sure where you are in the country but the Lorna Wing Centre in Kent is excellent.
Lots of books on Amazon - look at Collaborative Approaches to Learning by Ruth Fidler and Phil Christie.
I work with someone who has PDA - ‘let me tell you about my PDA’ is excellent as a starter text. I find that giving instructions or praise directly can be too much pressure. I tend to say ‘I think x is going to do a really good job of this’ or ‘I’m very pleased with how well x has worked’.

Give me a shout if I can help, and Good luck!