Family think I'm bad for leaving child at school 10mins before door opens

[pointbla]

I take my year 4 child early 10 mins before the school doors open and leave him there. I have another child to take to another school. He's 9 , I see no problem with it , other children are there too. Also, I don't regularly do that just occasionally.
My family seem to think this is very bad and I am putting my child at risk as the kids mess about. AIBU?

It wouldn’t matter what time I started, there would be families still wanting to drop their children earlier. We are supervised from 8.30am, bell at 8. I arrive at 8 and the playground is filling up already.
Last term, one broken wrist (monkey bars), one broken hip (very unusual case), 2 broken teeth. That’s amongst general grazes etc).
As I keep saying, everyone’s a special case.

And not sure I understand the comment about overtime? I certainly do my share of hanging around waiting for very important parents who don’t use the after school programme, because it’s ONLY TEN MINUTES. I’m constantly doing unpaid overtime thanks. And as a working parent, I can tell you, I never once expected a teacher to hang around before or after school to monitor my kids. They (very athletically and healthily) walked to school, played sports before and after school in the times that the school allowed.

Bell at 9, fat fingers sorry

A few 9yos hanging out or even 1 solo is entirely different than dozens of children of assorted ages left together unsupervised. It’s rarely just one parent and one kid who need to have an exception.

Our school has minimal supervision out 15 minutes before school. My daughter is 9 and my son 7 and I’d leave them alone in the playground. I’d let the 9 year old walk alone to school but not the 7 year old.

She is expecting the school staff to step in for her in the event of a problem.

I am 'expecting' the school staff to step in for my 12 year old in the event of a problem when she is outside waiting for the doors to open. I expect my 20 year old son's boss or colleagues to step in if something happens to him outside where he works. I expect it of staff in the local shops, the bystander when an elderly person falls or someone has a heart attack. The list in endless.

Putting your child in a very risky situation and then expecting other people to watch them for you is wrong. That isn't what is happening though. The risk of anything bad happening is very small and OP can't not take reasonable risks just in case someone has to step in and help her child. No one would ever do anything.

your point about parental responsibility applies just as much to a 15yo as to a 9yo.

Exactly! I think hercule is just bored and wanted something to disagree with. Because the OP is completely reasonable she had to make something up.

U2HasTheEdge

You have decided I am just looking for an argument (not, by the way), so I am not going to give you one.

Plenty of children walk themselves to school at that age and are early, the child probably isn’t the only one there without a parent

The school mine go to now have teachers in the playground as soon as the gates are open

Why do schools open the gates at 8 if school doesn’t start at 9

Actually lots of us have younger children so we tend to leave the older ones in the main playground and walk round the back of the school to take the younger ones so unsupervised by parents for 5-10 mins usually. My older one is 8

Our school doesn't have any supervision before or after school but has a 80+ lady in at lunch and break I see kids on their own passing ours from 8am, we live two doors away from the school so presumably they're going to hang out in the playground. My own dd aged 10 leaves here at 825 by herself to hang about with her friends for a bit before school starts at 845.

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall lots of schools have a breakfast club and offer care before the free breakfast club. Ours starts at 8:10.

Ds2 is 16 and his school didn’t allow parents in the playground before or after school once they got to year 3 . you had to wait at the gates and couldn’t really see the playground so bit pointless hanging around

They did have a member of staff on duty once the gates were open though. I thought that was a good idea , means the teachers don’t get collared every morning/after school by the same parents just wanting to chat too

@CORSACORSA mine has a breakfast club too from 7.50

Ofsted the fussy so and sos made them put in separate fencing though so the playground isn’t open

Same with going into nursery, separate fencing like a corridor that goes straight to the nursery block for afternoon sessions because opening up the playground and having people wandering around from 7.50 wasn’t acceptable.

Understandable really but I bet all the fencing cost a fortune

Or at 12.30 when nursery started

Hercule I still think you are just as cheeky as the op. If you knocked yourself out in the street you would feel mighty miffed if nobody stepped in to intervene. Legal responsibility for a child is neither here nor there, as you surely (surely?!) aren't suggesting that a 15yo shouldn't be left unattended for ten minutes, yet the legal responsibility is identical to when they are 9. The key point (that I think you are now wilfully ignoring, as it's been mentioned in many posts and got no response from you) is at what stage in childhood the risk of leaving them becomes acceptable. You can argue over whether 9 is too young or not, but this business about being cheeky for expecting someone to intervene in a serious emergency is just nonsense, because we all expect that, indeed couldn't function as a society without that expectation.

I don't want to restart hercule up, as she has some very strong views and may possibly live in an inner city or a school by a busy main road that is driving her concern, which is inapplicable to other schools/areas.

But just to point out OP isn't expecting "school to step in" or to supervise, (that's a massive erroneous assumption). OPs DC is waiting for school to open same as happens with many other DCs - which is as equally likely outside the school gate if not open. Maybe it's the geography /design of our local village & town schools but like many schools across the country, ours wait outside school grounds. They are no more at risk waiting 10 mins , having been safely dropped off outside school, than the other several hundred or thousand local children of similar age walking 20-30 mins to school without a parent holding their hand! Many PPs have similarly expressed incredulity about why some PPs are catastrophizing a normal rite of passage/ child development at appropriate age.

The police would not worry about 9 year olds playing (nicely) in parks or walking purposely somewhere unsupervised, unless they are doing something obviously dangerous/anti-social; they'd worry about an unsupervised toddlers or tiny children, but not a 9 year olds!

DCs in KS2 usually are starting to develop some level of independence and sensibleness.

So what happens when you get old and start having mobility problems? You have to go out to the shop for things, or to church or to meet ups

What if they have a fall ? Should they not go out because they are more at risk? What about adults with disabilities?

I’ve gone to the aid of more elderly people who needed a bit of support when out and about

We live in a community, we should support each other, our elderly and our children.

Unfortunately some people don’t seem to realise that

The irony is that schools up and down the land manage fine with this. By ten minutes before the bell there are literally dozens of unattended kids in our playground. School has reminded parents that there is no active supervision but said nothing else about the matter, presumably because unlike some on here they have an eminently sane and balanced approach to risk.

I think you explain it very well @frogsoup

I think some PPs will get a shock when their PFB's go to secondary school!

The secondary school (age 11+) mine attend, is very happy (as do other local secondary schools), that some children arrive one hour early before school starts and go to classroom and can stay 2-3 hours after school end 3pm if need be in some days (so 5-6pm still pupils around) not it for staff run clubs but unsupervised in classrooms/school grounds (maybe waiting for a sibling in an after-school activity or a lift or just using library) , no teacher with them (although teachers and staff are around running activities/clubs if they want to join in) , and librarian keeps library open part of that time. That surprised me when my eldest first went, but our schools install behavioural codes, often pupils are helping out and school gives pupils increasing responsibilities even from age 11.

If any pupil misbehaves, parent gets called in/child gets detention and put on report. Because they know school rules, conduct codes and are trusted to be sensible. CCTV is there for playback, aways staff around somewhere, but most pupils waiting for whatever reason quietly crack on with homework or offer to help out staff in some way. Our area has have some parents who drive a great distance & work. My year 9 + DCs used to do maths mentoring after school in classrooms for younger year 7&8s with no teachers watching them !

My year 9 + DCs used to do maths mentoring after school in classrooms for younger year 7&8s with no teachers watching them !

I take the general point of your thread but not sure the school is following proper safeguarding protocol if this is the case?

As an irony, in terms of legislation, a DC can go out and play unsupervised from early age (more viewed as 7+ in their local area) (not excessive time or playing on dangerous roads ) But if they were left alone in house under 16 and had an accident in house unsupervised (& couldn't deal with issue) police could consider it parental neglect arrestable offence, but harder to prosecute if outside home playing out (unless very young and excessive time left alone).

So as a professional in the field, whilst others might leave a 9 year old on own at home, if I need to pop out I take youngest with me or arrange she plays at park with a friend. She can be at home with her sister now aged 15 (although I remain legally one with reponsibility with under 16 y.o. sibling in charge as per nspcc guidance) or her brother nearly 17 (he's considered legally responsibility aged over 16)
No legislation is prescriptive but guidance of in-home or private building versus out playing, is interesting and unequal!
Equally applies to walking to waiting outside school.

Very sensible post from Frog above.

As several posters have said, the "technical, legal" responsibilities are the same for a 4yo and a 15yo. But you can't take the approach that children can never be left alone, ever, until they reach the magic age of 16. Most communities take a common sense approach and allow children more and more unsupervised time as they get older, on a sliding scale. In Japan where I live, 6yo would be considered fine to leave this child unsupervised. In the UK, people are more risk averse and feel that 8-9 is more suitable. Fair enough. I think what is really important is that children are used to having some unsupervised time by the time they go off to secondary, because it absolutely will be expected there.

The thing is, it is in teachers' interests as well to ensure that children gradually develop independence and initiative as they get older. Most teachers get frustrated by kids who are continually expecting teachers to hover, help them with every bit of work that they don't instantly understand rather than using they own initiative to have a go at working it out, find things for them, sort out every tiny dispute they have with friends, provide them with things they have forgotten to bring etc.. I don't think this kind of learned helplessness is helped if we insist on treating 9yos like 4yos all the time. Fortunately, the great majority of schools take a sensible approach, as is evident from the discussion on this thread by both parents and teachers.

@Lumene
They do and the school is fine doing so. It's an outstanding Ofsted school who are very up to date in what is good practice. There are teachers on site and it was an e.g. that DCs do not need micro-managing or handholding. None of our secondary schools close building at school end and all children have to be purposeful when in the building but they are trusted to be sensible.

yabbers
I’m in Scotland and am able to convert year 4 to primary 4
Good for you! But as I said it’s not a reference I’m used to. So I read 4 year old.

That is why I said it was confusing, not incomprehensible!

Plus a primary 4 in Scotland is a different age from year 4 in England.