To think a comprensive school shouldn't spend all it's money on certain students?

[DoraHint]

Both of my kids (DD just finished Year 11 and DS starting Year 8) attend a very highly sought after (and extremely high ranking) comprehensive school. The area it is in is very posh, but they take kids from surrounding areas. Said village is on the outskirts of a big town and they take kids from rough estates in said town. The school's catchment area is huge, considering how good it is. Kids come from 10+ miles away. Apparently it's rare they turn a student down. There are around 2000+ in the main school and a few hundred in 6th form.

The school has around 400 in each year group and in my experience, they seem to pick the 25 top students from each year group and splurge all of the funding on them. I've noticed it in both DC's years and even in other years from what I see on the website the same kids always pop up. In DD's 5 years there she has been on 4 school trips. Residential in Year 7, Year 8, Year 9, Day trip in Year 10 and none in Year 11. All were UK based. DS seems to be following the same path.

However, one of DD's friends has been on several trips per year. In addition to DD's trips, she's been to Barcelona with school for a week, France for a week, on a German exchange, a visit to Jesus college in Oxford, and was also offered another trip to Aushwitz which she turned down. DD applied for 2 of these trips and was turned down for both. She says it's the same group of kids who always get the places on each trip. The Barcelona one was for the musical kids in particular to go on tour, fair enough. But the rest weren't linked to any subject except Aushwitz (History) and yet of the 20 places they only offered the trip to certain History students. All of which had already been abroad with the school.

The school has what they call the "Scholars Programme" where the top few kids in each year (ones who always go abroad and get picked to represent the school in stuff) get put in their own classes and get to take "special" GCSE's not offered to everybody else. They like to push these kids towards Oxbridge (hence the Jesus college trip) and they get a lot of time and money spent on them. In addition to the abroad trips they are constantly taking them to lectures and the like. These also tend to be the posh kids who live in the village. All of the other kids seem to fall by the wayside. DD took 7 GCSE's and is predicted between 6-8s but obviously nobody in the school takes an interest in the kids who aren't on the Scholars programme. I expect DS will suffer the same fate. On the school's page about the scholarship programme they literally say "We understand not everybody will see the benefits of the programme, often those not fortunate enough to qualify. But we believe our most abled students deserve just as much support as our others."

They sent a girl off to Oxford who they'd taught from Year 7 to Year 12 two years ago and they still bleat on about her online 3 years later. I feel it's all very unfair. I have a 21 year old DD who went to a different very average school and while that had it's faults, it didn't blatantly favour certain students. None of it sits well with me. It feels like some of the kids are getting all the benefits of a private education without actually paying at the expense of everybody else who gets neglected. DD says she'd rather eat a cactus than attend the 6th form.

Apologies about my use of "it's" in the title. Long day

The school pays to take children on school trips? The parents don't have to pay for the school trips, even the ones abroad? I'm not sure if I have understood.

When I was in school I was one of the students on the “Gifted & Talented” scheme, whereby the school received funding towards helping the top 5% (I think) academic students achieving their potential. I remember going on a few residential summer school type trips to the top universities (one of which I did end up attending) but I can’t remember what else it was used for. Certainly no fabulous trips overseas.

The school will recieve additional funding per "disadvantaged" pupil and is accountable to demonstrate how that money has been used to support their progress. That certainly wouldn't stretch to cover what you describe which must surely be funded primarily by parents who can afford it.

The attitude of the school does seem limited in terms of who they celebrate.

Is this just their G&T budget dressed up in independent school language? They will also get PPI funds for the most disadvantaged kids. It’s how all schools work, they perhaps just don’t publicise it so openly.
Alternatively, they might have sponsors/charity partners who fund particular programmes. Again, this is fairly typical for a large school in a wealthy area - lots of businesses will support community endeavours etc. Just encourage your son to get involved in the opportunities, they will come up if he’s actively involved in extra-curricular/societies.

It surely can’t be that good if they’re only focusing on 25 pupils per year?

The results of those 25 wouldn’t be enough to bring up the average of the 375 who did not have the benefit of the extra attention?

I feel like there has to be more to it than you’ve been told if the school is that good and sought after.

As an aside, as a previous gifted and talented student...sometimes it was nice to be able to get attention for being good, rather than the focus being on the less able and/or badly behaved students in the class.

If all comps were like this the private schools would mostly disappear!

I had a fabulous pupil in an inner-city comprehensive who worked hard, applied for everything and left school with a cv to rival that of anyone at an independent. Others could have achieved similar but didn’t. Their choice.

@Parsnippy No, the parents do pay. Sorry I wasn't clear, my post was a ramble. The issue is more who gets offered the trips. They will have signups and say that it will be based on a "first come first serve" process who gets a place on the trip. Yet it's always the same kids year after year getting picked to go on. DD says she thinks the sign ups are faux and that they always intend to pick certain kids.

I feel if I child has had 2 school trips abroad in 2 years, then perhaps next time they apply for one then the kids who didn't get to go last time should be prioritized.

I understand nuturing the high flyers to a degree, I really do. But offering them so much and not giving the others ant oppurtunities is just not on IMO. Both my DC do extra curricular activites but because they are part of the "A's across the board" group they aren't noticed. Lots of the Scholara kids develop very close (almost personal) relationships with the teachers over time.

*Both my DC do extra curricular activites but because they aren't part of the "A's across the board" group they aren't noticed.

If parents are prepared to pay, then perhaps just request more trips? The school will prioritise their G&T kids for certain things (they have to do this to some degree) but that shouldn’t limit other opportunities for the whole school, not if there is willingness from parents to support it.

Just wait till your kids work and some of their colleagues get pay rises or promotions and they don’t. It’s life.
It does sound to me like the school has an image (or a PR firm) to upkeep with sponsors (for job/apprenticeship offers) and top universities (for unconditional placements).

I don’t like the way you talk about the school “bleating” about the achievements of its pupils, or “rough estates”. You sound like a snob. Technically you’re probably right but meh.

Schools receive (well, they did when I was at school) additional funding for students who are considered gifted and talented, this could only be spent on those students/on something that would directly benefit G&T students.

All schools will advertise the fact that a student went to Oxbridge, especially a state school, I was on my schools website for six years for that reason. I asked them to remove my name/photo, but I’m still listed as an Oxbridge grad and I’m 31!

I think it’s good that a comprehensive encourages children to aim high and supports high achievement.
Was Auschwitz history or was it part of the National Holocaust Education Trust programme which takes just two children per school each year? Fabulous programme and encourages those selected to return and share their learning. That limit is set by the Trust not by the school.
You wouldn’t take someone on target for BBC to an Oxbridge open day would you? I suspect the limit is two minibuses.

Mine were fortunate to have excellent opportunities from a comprehensive- Russia, Auschwitz via the Trust, Kayaking the Dordogne, Singing at Festival Hall and Albert Hall etc. They got selected because they put the effort in. They turned up to choir weekly, they had House and School colours, they did A level RE mainly in their own time at 15 (Hence Auschwitz trip).

It might not be as unfair as you imagine; like most things in life instead of bleating about it being unfair, perhaps the answer is to get yourself in a position to be selected.

If children are noticing that the same students are always the ones to be offered extra opportunities, then that's a problem. Yes, it's important to provide a good education for high achievers, but this cannot come at the expense of the 300+ pupils who are not going to be straight A students - they need to feel that their school will absolutely do the very best is can for all of the pupils. If they are not feeling that the school has their backs too, then this is a real problem.

My experience of a comprehensive was totally different, where it felt like all the time and money was spent on bringing the lowest achievers up as much as they could (scraping a C if possible!) but then not really paying much attention to the highest achievers at all - Oxbridge was barely even mentioned (although a few people went anyway off their own backs!) It was a good school too but it was a totally different dynamic to the one you have described.

It sounds like yours has a gifted and talented programme and that’s why these kids are going on Oxbridge visits etc.

Also sounds like these kids aren’t being ‘picked’ for trips if it’s a sign up process - yes a decision is probably made to not take a badly behaved pupil to Auschwitz but could it not genuinely be that these kids are the most proactive at getting their name signed up as quickly as possible? Surely it’s a lot of effort for the school to say there’s a sign up process and then go through everyone as if it’s the X Factor and choose who gets in!

I highly doubt it is very sought after if they don't refuse anyone. A side issue nonetheless.
Perhaps the pupils signing up are the ones that can afford to go on 5 residential trips? The cost of residentials nowadays will be cost prohibitive for many pupils.

Shouldn’t you be asking the school how your DD can get into these trips to help her motivation? You need to talk to them urgently if she’s giving up on the idea of sixth form.

On the face of it, being proud of and supporting their gifted children is their remit too. It’s worth a conversation about motivating others and your dd though.

The parents will be paying for those trips unless they are low income

The problem is that those ending up in Oxbridge/Medical schools/lae schools etc... are criticised for misrepresentation of kids from comprehensive schools. Getting into these a hoops is massively competitive, with private s hoops investing a lot to support pupils to get in.

DD went to a very average comp school but expressed an interest going to med school from the start. The school was not equipped to help her through it, and if it wasn't for my intense research of the matter, she most likely wouldn't have got in.

I can understand the frustration that it might seem these pupils are getting more attention but without it, the likelihood is that even with the intellectual capability, comp kids won't stand a chance to get it the top schools without additional support from their school.

Both my sons were/are on the G&T strand, so I guess may got offered some things others don’t. But as for a lot of the trips, it’s first come, first served with the deposits.

yes a decision is probably made to not take a badly behaved pupil to Auschwitz but could it not genuinely be that these kids are the most proactive at getting their name signed up as quickly as possible?

Lol.
I think that what @DoraHint is describing is quite common. I saw it at my dcs school, even though it wasn’t as blatant. But very clearly, the same children were picked up. And the quiet ones were forgotten.

My DC is going a comprehensive outstanding secondary school. They encourage the children strive to be their best and always aim for the best. They focus on music, sports, theatre and academia. If my DC is not picked for certain trips then tough, such is life. Most things do not get handed to you in life.