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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think people should pay for their childcare?

88 replies

MacInTheBox · 17/07/2019 19:45

Okay, so perhaps a bit of a clickbait-esque title but all the same...

Picked DD up from nursery today to be handed a letter and told that they would be closing for good on Friday. I am absolutely gutted.

DD has been attending the nursery since she was 9 months old, she's 3 now. We've always been very pleased with her progress and all of the staff are so lovely.

The reason for the closure is that there is about 20k of unpaid nursery fees. Financially they couldn't keep up. I am gobsmacked at just how much they were owed!

I suspect there are other factors at play, such as the free childcare places, etc. But I can't believe that people would/could continue sending their children to nursery without paying?!

I'm now faced with having to sort out a new nursery for DD ready for when we get back off holiday in 2 weeks. I feel sick to my stomach that we might not be able to find a place for her and what a mess we'll be in.

I know that lots of people are facing financial hardship. We are not hugely well off ourselves, but we've always managed to keep up to date with nursery fees because it's a service we rely on. If we couldn't we would have no choice but to find an alternative. AIBU to feel this way?

OP posts:

BigChocFrenzy · 17/07/2019 21:35

I'm surprised that nurseries and childminders don't demand payment 2 - 4 weeks in advance,
so they always have a buffer and can stop a parent before they get into arrears

Mollieben1 · 17/07/2019 21:38

Believe me, this is very common. It's all very well to say nurseries shouldn't let people build up debts but everyone has a back story, a reason why they are late paying etc...we want to trust that they will pay but sometimes they just never do. I'm not surprised that this has forced your nursery to close - we are owed thousands too

WaterOffaDucksCrack · 17/07/2019 21:40

It's the same in elderly care. Councils place lots of people and demand the cheapest possible packages; care homes charge self-funding residents about three times as much to make the books balance. Yep! The council rates around here are less than 3 pounds per hour per resident. Oh unless they're "higher dependency". Then they get a whopping £3.20 per hour! We have to charge a third party "top up" otherwise we can't accept them sadly.

hibbledibble · 17/07/2019 21:41

I absolutely agree people should pay for a service they use, but at the same time, the nursery should have had robust procedures for unpaid fees, to have prevented such a debt accumulating.

The lack of notice to parents is inexcusable as well, they must have known for some time that they were in trouble financially.

MrsMiggins37 · 17/07/2019 22:14

Hopefully with kids going up to school and her being 3 and not a baby you’ll find somewhere lovely with spaces x

pepsimax20bigger · 17/07/2019 22:24

Sounds like a badly run nursery. Why have they allowed that amount of debt to build up? They should be charging in advance. And to only give 2 days notice of closure is shocking.

TheHandsOfNeilBuchanan · 17/07/2019 22:26

Every nursery we looked at wanted a deposit plus a month in advance. Yes people should pay their fees, but this is poor business management

ethelfleda · 17/07/2019 22:27

YATNBU

I added the ‘T’
It stands for totally.

People should pay. If you can’t, then remove your child.

TheHandsOfNeilBuchanan · 17/07/2019 22:27

I think nurseries ought to have someone managing the accounts who isn't a childcare provider. No emotional attachment to the children/family etc. It's a business not a charity.

Original poster

MacInTheBox · 17/07/2019 22:43

The longer I've thought about it the more angry I've become at the owners of the nursery. How could they have allowed this to happen and not just for the parents but their staff too?

I really hope all the ladies who work there are able to find new roles quickly.

I'm going to call the Local Authority tomorrow as well as a nursery just around the corner from our home. Fingers crossed they have places available. If not I'll be going down the childminder route!

OP posts:

Stinkycatbreath · 18/07/2019 03:54

The cost for the free child places is not met by the nursery it is met by the local authority and subsequently the central government so the nursery do receive equivalent payments. Some people dont realise that this is term time only and forget to top up. Also it reliant on the parent applying to the local authority for the child not the nursery respite apply.

SkydivingKittyCat · 18/07/2019 04:28

I don't think £20k is that much when you think about it to be honest - that's 20 full timers having not paid an an invoice for a month (approx £1000?). Obviously it shouldn't have happened and there must be other factors at play but it's easy to see how they could have a debt figure that high.

myself2020 · 18/07/2019 05:33

@Stinkycatbreath our council pays £4.20 per hour, going rate is £6.50 (this is southeast). The council rate is under cost, which to literally nobody but the most desperate nurseries offering them (and they closed rapidly). They now allow top ups, so its subsidised rather than free places. still, most oy offer 15 hours, the admin for the 30 is just not worth it.

BitchQueen90 · 18/07/2019 05:36

We need to remember what is happening with the switch to Universal Credit. People are having to wait weeks for their payments, they're not being calculated correctly, the whole thing is a shambles.
People who are on low incomes and get government help with nursery fees still have to go to work, they can't just take time off while they wait for payments. It's not always as simple as "don't send your child if you can't afford it."

It's a shame about the nursery but this is the state of things at the moment.

myself2020 · 18/07/2019 05:46

and just imagine the outcry and the “sad face” stories- “cruel
nursery excluded my child just because universal credit was late”. its hard to keep the balance for nurseries (

insancerre · 18/07/2019 06:17

How on earth did the nursery let that amount of unpaid fees mount up?
At the nursery where I work all fees are paid a month in advance
Any fees that are not paid by the end of the month will result in the child’s place being suspended
Then we take the parent to court for the debt

KnittingForMittens · 18/07/2019 06:30

It's sad but if it wasn't for UC (childcare element) and then the 30 hour funding we get next year, there's absolutely no way I'd be able to go work. I am left with a little less than £200 disposable income after paying childcare fees and bills and that has to cover everything, including my husband's wages (we are both on just above NMW). We still pay top ups and we will have to pay top ups when we get funding too. Touch wood I haven't known any nurseries to close down near me yet.

maddening · 18/07/2019 06:43

£20k could be 20 different parents missing a month, over a period that isn't hard to see happening.

JacquesHammer · 18/07/2019 06:44

Have a look at private prep schools too?

The pre-school element at DD’s prep took into consideration free hours. They also simply took it as a lump sum off a monthly bill and didn’t require set sessions. It worked out cheaper than nursery for us.

maddening · 18/07/2019 06:49

Ps if your dc is 3 look at the preschools - mine was £29 per day as I used wrap around so he was in 8-6 and whilst I took his lunch in also it was so much cheaper. Additionally they followed school calendar so the hols were a holiday club that you only pay for if you use it so by organising our annual leave we saved. £1k a year at least.

PollyPelargonium52 · 18/07/2019 06:49

Perhaps it is something to do with 20 per cent of UK family households live in poverty. According to something I heard on radio 4. This was referring to those who work also. So it may be families within that bracket.

Cazziebo · 18/07/2019 06:50

I know three nurseries currently under threat of closure because it's no longer viable to continue. it's a mix of the free hours funding and the bad debts. It's not as easy as saying they shouldn't let it build up.

Agree with the OP - people should pay for their childcare. It's not an optional bill. If they can't afford it they have to revise their outgoings and incomings just like any other bill.

Tumbleweed101 · 18/07/2019 06:58

There is an awful lot going on in nurseries at the moment.

The debt itself may have been manageable depending on how old it is (ie they might be that much in debt on paper but all those parents might be paying tomorrow).

It’s the mix of universal credit paying behind, funding not matching expenditure, raise in min wage and pensions, not being able to claim back VAT like schools can, business rates, businesses not being able to claim for the difference between real cost and funding, needing a certain amount of staff for ratios, etc.

There are a lot of factors that make it hard for nurseries as a business make a profit, many aren’t even breaking even.

For our children that means closures, staff down to the minimum, less variety in snacks/meals, less trips out, less resources provided etc.

It’s a massive problem and one that needs to be addressed soon.

adriennewillfly · 18/07/2019 07:01

Couldn't they use an invoice factoring service? Basically sell the invoices to another company to collect on.

megletthesecond · 18/07/2019 07:03

Apparently universal credit help with childcare is paid at least one month in arrears.
That's probably not helping nurseries.

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