To be horrified by the poor spelling and grammar on social media?

[PuzzledObserver]

In the past 24 hours, I have tutted at the following gems across a range of social media, including MN:-

• per say (per se)
• should of (should have)
• to all intense purposes (to all intents and purposes)
• that player is literally on fire (I do hope she isn’t)

Granted that autocorrect sometimes gets it wrong, not all posters are native speakers of English and there are regional variations.... but AIBU to hope that anyone who has completed their education in the UK can actually write in correct English?

Maybe the education system could improve, and some people have dyslexia. But many see correct spelling in their computers and phones, and are too lady or disinterested to learn it.

Lazy.

Some people are too lazy to proof read their posts, too!

Disinterested or uninterested?

For some reason its a badge of honour to be bad at spelling and maths in this country.

I actually think that's complete bollocks. Youngsters at least seem aware that a lot of highly rated degrees and job opportunities require high levels of numeracy and/or literacy.

Maybe there is more tendency among the English for familiarity to breed, if not contempt then at least much more informality than among those for whom it's a second language.

I think judging a candidate on the basis of their social media style (as opposed to content!) is quite unfair, if their application is literate.

I think judging a candidate on the basis of their social media style (as opposed to content!) unfair, if their application is literate.

I don't see the correlation between having good standards of literacy and being unable to spell on social media. Surely good spelling is a learned habit that isn't that much of an effort? I'm not being super strict, but if you know the difference between "there" and "their" and "lose" and "loose", what would make you misspell it on social media all of a sudden?

I used to mark university essays and exam scripts and while literacy wasn't too bad, its shocking how poor standards are in this country even for masters students. Many of them couldn't construct an essay correctly, didn't use paragraphs, couldn't reference (despite being given guidance) and just didn't bother with a short bibliography. These were invariably students in with undergraduate degrees in subjects requiring a high level of literacy! I didn't mark at one of the more established universities though, but it was shocking. I now work with mainly Dutch and Belgian people and have some on my social media, and their literacy levels are far higher - they just don't make these kind of mistakes.

IMHO it has to be the education system in the UK. I know that Dutch students are required to learn grammar rules to a much higher standard than their British counterparts.

I recently didn't give work to someone based on what I could see on their social media profile. It was very off-putting (it wasn't solely to do with spelling).

The post I was referring to mentioned 'txt spk with no punctuation' rather than spelling. This may be viewed as similar in kind to telegraph messages.

If the SM messages accurately and succinctly convey their meaning to their intended audience, is that necessarily a problem?

Obviously the issues in university work are serious but I suspect that's more related to the broadening of access than degradation of standards. I'm 58 and was not formally taught some elements of English grammar.

IMHO it has to be the education system in the UK.

It's because secondary English education is dominated by literature, poetry, fiction, etc. The amount of teaching/examination on actual literacy, spelling, grammar, etc., is minimal, basically the least that they can get away with. It's all about interpretation, understanding plots and themes, etc rather than the nitty gritty of real life literacy. Spelling and grammar mistakes are tolerated if you can recite the quote correctly or understand the importance of a sub-plot or the meaning behind a poem.

When I was in secondary in the 70s we spent many, many lessons on letter writing (formal and informal), doing comprehension exercises on real life non fiction (i.e. to prove understanding of a recipe or some instructions or a extract from a text book), preparing balanced arguments, doing exercises on summarising a long piece of writing or expanding a list of bullet points into an essay, etc. Spelling and grammar was treated with the utmost importance throughout all that and you'd lose a grade or two if an otherwise perfect piece of work was littered with technical mistakes.

There was a time that Eng Lang and Eng Lit were two completely different subjects. Back in the 70s we had different teachers and each was it's own distinct subject. Nowadays, it's all blurred and dominated by fiction/poetry etc. That turns off the less academically able, so they don't learn grammar/literacy either. I have been completely aghast at my son's five years of secondary "English" education - just book after book after book, then the only writing they did was creative writing, which is again, basically fiction. Things like balanced arguments, essay writing technique etc were taught in other subjects like History. It's a crazy system.

Surely good spelling is a learned habit that isn't that much of an effort?

Absolutely true. Although as a PP mentioned, my phone - for some reason - is now automatically adjusting plurals to always include an apostrophe. It is immensely irritating as I now have to remember to check, despite knowing I’m writing the correct word.

It isn’t too difficult to see how ones slip through the net. Especially as I don’t bother using any of the checking tools I would for work social media use.

Autocorrect is doing some ridiculous things at the moment; I'm on the verge of turning it off on my I-things. I'm not a very accurate typist on a screen so it's just about net beneficial but it's marginal. I'm assuming the errant apostrophe in Kazzy's last post is autocorrect not understanding the possessive 'its' at the moment.

Artificial intelligence isn't yet always a good substitute for the real thing.

I think you are being a little unreasonable.
It's social media, not a PHD thesis. Most people slip up on grammar and spelling when writing casually on the internet. As long as people understand what you are saying on social media it doesn't really matter. I'm sure people take more care when writing at work or school.

Mistaking phrases like per se is down to people having heard it, but not seen it written down. Mocking people for that is snobbery.

Not everyone has the same access to education, books etc (libraries are closing down and unavailable in some areas) than others

As long as people understand what you are saying on social media it doesn't really matter.

That's that point though. Some posts are just unfathomable. Some need to be re-read a couple of times before you understand what they're on about, and you just have to give up on some others as they're more like random words than a coherent sentence.

Sometimes the misuse of an apostrophe, a comma in the wrong place, spelling their as there, etc., can completely change the meaning of what someone is trying to say. So, yes, it can matter, even in a social media post.

Mistaking phrases like per se is down to people having heard it, but not seen it written down. Mocking people for that is snobbery.

True.
There's a flip side to that one. Never criticise someone for mispronouncing a word which isn't in common parlance - it's almost certainly something they've only come across in writing and they should be encouraged (by 'modelling') rather than slapped down.

YABU to feel 'horrified' by this. In the grand scheme of life, does it really matter if someone makes a spelling error on social media?

No, it’s not the biggest problem in the world. I never said that it was.

One PP mentioned modelling correct pronunciation (and presumably spelling) rather than slapping people down. I agree - I never correct what someone has said or written directly. I do however use the correct spelling/pronunciation myself. Whether they pick that up or not is up to them.

This thread is different. It’s not about directly correcting anyone, it’s about discussing the general issue.

Regarding SM being like informal speech - I agree that the way someone speaks when among friends is different in many cases from the way they speak in a more formal setting, such as at work. I suppose because I grew up before social media, there was no written equivalent of informal speech. I write how I’ve always written. My texts usually include full sentences.

I love language - it fascinates me. I enjoy exploring the way it works and also how other languages work differently. Other people have different interests.

Mistaking phrases like per se is down to people having heard it, but not seen it written down. Mocking people for that is snobbery.

If they've not seen it written down, they probably don't understand it's proper meaning and correct context anyway. So they're just using it to try and make out they're better, i.e. snobbery, and usually end up shooting themselves in the foot. When people use over-complicated language in the wrong setting it always reminds me of Del Boy with his French sayings!

I don’t really know what the OP wants anyway. If someone doesn’t know something, they don’t know it. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Maybe it’s their fault that they never learnt it, and maybe it isn’t. What does anyone gain by slagging them off?

I don't think the OP was slagging off such posters.

I work at a university and I see atrocious grammar and spelling from the students. I personally think it's really worrying that people who have achieved that level of education can't produce a proper sentence. My concern is that standards are falling. I don't mock the students, but I don't apologize for being absolutely fucking depressed by it.

If they've not seen it written down, they probably don't understand it's proper meaning and correct context anyway

Seriously? Do you think that's how language actually works?
Do you think that before humankind developed writing, people didn't understand the meaning and context of what they were saying? The vast majority of the human race used to be illiterate.

On social media I don't see why it matters at all. It's the equivalent of having a casual conversation. Why do you care? It's a bit like when English people say "I was sat there". Do you really correct them mid conversation? That seems like a dickhead thing to do. It's a colloquialism and as long as it doesn't move into their professional language then it doesn't matter
I agree with you.

There's something about correcting people's SPAG online and interrupting conversations to correct grammar that makes me think the language police have a stick stuck up their backside. Like other things, it's never the really bright and articulate people I know who do it because they have nothing to prove and know it's a dickhead thing to do.

If they've not seen it written down, they probably don't understand it's proper meaning and correct context anyway.

its proper meaning

not

it's proper meaning

Muphry's Law strikes again

They just may be not very bright? Just because you finished your education here doesn’t mean you remembered/ understood it?
My foster daughter was moved 6 times not her fault never gets “their there they’re” correct in Facebook
However my super bright rocket scientist uncle can’t spell basic words and he has phd’s from oxbridge

I think you're being a bit unreasonable lol. It pisses me off, bad grammar and whatnlt, but online I'm just ljke "pfff, d ont care". As long as it's coherent what's tne harm?

Im ACE at grammar, honestly LOL, online im focusing on banging out txt in limited amount of tim e, on a very shit phone/tablet.
I don't give one about grAmmar on social media. I make typos as you can clearly see!

@Andylion I don't think the OP was slagging off such posters.

Indeed I wasn’t. Thank you.

We all have the capacity to continue learning through life. I didn’t know what SPAG meant before this thread - the first time it was used I assumed it was a typo. But it was repeated, so I have now deduced its meaning.

@JacquesHammer
Likewise, I read a lot for both work and pleasure. Autocorrect undoes all my hard work.