AIBU to think KLM's breastfeeding 'policy' is absurd?

[Celebelly]

'Breastfeeding is permitted at KLM flights. However, to ensure that all our passengers of all backgrounds feel comfortable on board, we may request a mother to cover herself while breastfeeding, should other passengers be offended by this.'

This was posted on their official Twitter today.

'Permitted'. Thank god it's 'permitted' to feed your child.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous?

According to a 2009 study, kissing increases oxytoxin in men. Perhaps we should wear special lip masks.

*oxytocin

on a plane being asked to use a scarf for modesty is not unreasonable as long as politely requested

Yes, it is unreasonable, because it implies that it's somehow shameful. Imagine if, for instance, someone had a noticeable deformity and some air hostess handed them a scarf and asked them politely to cover it up as some of the passengers didn't like it. Or, indeed, if they were wearing a low-cut top and said scarf came out.

@Somersetlady does like to trot out the sexy facts about breasts. Can you answer the question posed by @Celebelly about which part of the breast is the offensive part please

Can you answer my question re Virgin Mary too or unable to?

Looking at those two pictures posted pages back - the lady feeding in public covered has what seem to be small breasts. The uncovered lady much larger.

I wore a 36HH size bra when I was feeding. They were almost as big as my head Trying to do it discreetly (grabbing a handful of boob and baby's head) was almost impossible.

Bear in mind ladies with bigger boobs do not always find it so easy to just 'pop baby on' under a top and only expose an inch... especially if they've got a wriggler!

I'm in the camp of I would feed wherever and whenever I needed to however I do think it's the decent thing to do to be mindful if someone is likely to be offended or uncomfortable and if it's convenient/comfortable for you and baby to be fairly covered or somewhere a bit private. My FIL (despite both of his children being breastfed) was clearly very uncomfortable with me doing it in front of him. He never said a word, he wouldn't have, but I could tell he'd not look at me and go all shuffly. So if I was in his home I'd take DDs off to a bedroom to feed. I didn't mind (and it meant I got ten minutes peace anyway). Bless him he obviously appreciated it because when he used to see me getting ready to go up he'd go and put a pint of water and a biscuit on the bedside table for me.

People are allowed to feel uncomfortable. Some older people, more conservative religions etc just don't feel ok about seeing it. But what they're not allowed to do is make you feel uncomfortable or be rude as a result. And KLM are doing this with this policy, it's not on.

@Badlad, if you look at my original post on this issue, I acknowledged that it is at least possible that UK law doesn't apply. My point was that, in general, airlines should look to apply the laws of the country they are flying out of in relation to issues like this, not least because those are the laws that most of their passengers will be used to working to and accept.

Fair enough. I think it would better for airlines to follow a consistent policy, rather than it depending on the country they're flying out of. If nothing else, it would make life easier for the cabin crew, who have to make passengers follow it if KLM's policy was the same across all its flights.

So what you are suggesting, @somersetlady is that everyone should go out and spend money on breastfeeding tops etc just to appease people like you, rather than risk flashing a bit of breast in a normal clothes.
I have a few breastfeeding items, but on the whole the choice is quite limited, ugly and bloody expensive.
One up one down is fine if you’re wearing separates, but as the weather is heating up it’s too warm to wear 2 layers every day, especially while feeding a sweaty little wriggly baby.
So if wearing a vest top because that’s what I’ve chosen to wear today, or a button down dress, and I don’t want to add another layer, then yes my boob is going to be on display a little bit when I feed.

@Celebelly you cant see much. Unless the titfloppers are in action then they just get them out in the open the whole shibang!

Great to see that EasyJet have tweeted that they support breastfeeding on board

Yes it is - but as mentioned upthread I'd still like to see how they handled a couple of "conflicting protected characteristics" if it happened on one of their aircraft

I don’t think “being offended at the sight of a feeding baby” is a protected characteristic.

actually, what could be those 'protected characteristics' that might conflict with breastfeeding? I don't know any major religions which would have issues. Age, race and sexual orientation also don't come into play.

The good thing about the poll function is it cuts through all the noisy posters who otherwise would give the impression that people are 50/50 on this.

Unless the titfloppers are in action then they just get them out in the open the whole shibang!

For goodness sake you know we are having a laugh and don’t actually wander around flipping our tits out all over the place. Please read @Eminybob post above about why SOMETIMES we might flash a bit more boob than usual.

Oh and just to add to my earlier post - most specific breastfeeding clothing is also maternity clothing for some completely unfathomable reason. So is never going to fit nicely or be flattering. I don’t have to go around looking like a sack of shit just because I’ve chosen to breastfeed.

Still waiting to hear a response to @Celebelly question about which exact part of the breast is offensive

And to my question about if the picture of the Virgin Mary posted previously depicts an attention seeking militant breastfeeder

Sorry to harp on but I really hate when questions get ignored that might expose an inconsistency in your view

I don’t think “being offended at the sight of a feeding baby” is a protected characteristic

No, but some religions or cultures which may be behind the objection are (though of course we don't yet know if this was the case with KLM)

I'm not aware of any who object to BF itself, but certainly there are some where modesty's an expectation - which is why I wondered what may happen if further such cases follow

To me no part of the breast is offensive. I love my breasts i am happy to enjoy them as part of my sex life and they have served me well to feed two children.

we go back to the point that other people may feel uncomfortable.

Meh art isn't my thing especially religious art and i certainly wouldn’t hang that picture in my house but my perspective isn't the only one in the world and to others they may find it distasteful for their own set of reasons!

No, but some religions or cultures which may be behind the objection are (though of course we don't yet know if this was the case with KLM)

I don't agree that their rights should trump the right of the baby to feed comfortably and the mother to facilitate that.

And this is the case legally in the UK and in lots of other countries.

on a plane being asked to use a scarf for modesty is not unreasonable as long as politely requested

And if the answer is 'my baby doesn't tolerate feeding under a scarf and screams the place down' what do you do then?

I breastfed all my children. In this country I completely agree, and would join any protest if necessary.

KLM is not a uk airline. I think we have to accept and respect that other countries and cultures don't always share our views.

No, but some religions or cultures which may be behind the objection are (though of course we don't yet know if this was the case with KLM)

By that logic, KLM should throw a towel over the clasped hands of gay couples.

It doesn't take much to cover up and take other peoples views into account really and I say that as someone who breastfed three babies

it doesn't take much to cover up and take other peoples views into account really

You’ve clearly never had a baby who wouldn’t feed under a cover, have you?

What is the offensive part of the breast, anyway? It can't be the bulk of it as women can show plenty of cleavage and that's perfectly fine, so it must be the nipple, right? But hold on - there's a baby on the nipple so that won't be visible bar perhaps a second or two. And the baby's head will be blocking most of the boob. So what's actually offensive? What can you actually see when someone has their boob out and a baby on?

This exactly. I have spoken of the irony, I have friends and family who like to flaunt their cleavage and yet I spend ages picking my outfits so not to expose myself feeding my baby. It can get quite stressful trying to dress appropriately, for events you might not have foreseen, looking attractive and not a frump (I am also conscious of my pp body and don’t want anything that makes me look fat, for women are judged for their size too) only to arrive and see the most BFing friendly outfits aren’t worn by BFing mums! Some you could easily slip a nipple out, latch a baby on and less, not more would be on show!! Now I don’t mind these women. But I wonder why I antagonise about it so much. Then you read tripe like this and remember why.

It doesn’t take much to cover up - for some it does. Can you please read the posts above that answer this. Some have huge boobs. Sometimes it’s too hot. Sometimes a baby will fuss if under a cover.

WHY is the comfort of the offended person more important than the comfort of the mum and baby?