To have thought this was really wrong and completely heartless.

[Lily715]

At asda today. Old homeless man sat outside minding his own business. Not asking anyone for anything. It is my local supermarket and I see him most times I go. I've never seen him begging or asking anyone for anything. Asda security come out and tell him he has to go and sit somewhere else because customers are complaining about him. He became really upset and was explaining that he isn't asking anyone for anything, it's just a sheltered place to sit. Who would complain about a poor homeless man sat on the pavement who isnt doing anyone any harm? I thought it was really heartless and unfair. I felt a bit ashamed of our country to be honest.

In the winter before last, when we had the heavy snow, I had to go to my nearest major city each day for two weeks. On my walk from the train station to where I needed to be, there was each morning a homeless man, wrapped up in a filthy old duvet asleep in an empty shop doorway.
One morning as I approached, a police car pulled up. Two policemen got out and one of them shoved the homeless man hard with his foot and told him to move on.
I saw red! How bloody fortunate they were to have slept in a nice warm bed in a nice warm house and no doubt had a nice warm shower and breakfast too.
I almost got myself arrested, I don't care.
That homeless man was in an empty shop doorway, in the freezing cold trying to sleep.
I don't know or care why.
It could be any one of us at any one given time.

There's a homeless guy near me who just sits, doesn't always beg, but the implication is there. Two of my elderly neighbours find it really intimidating and walk the other way so as not to cross his path which adds a lot on to their journey. I understand why some people may wish to complain.

OP what are you personally doing to help this situation then? Or are you just coming on Mumsnet to complain?

@PizzaTaste why be so rude? I do my own work surrounding these issues actually but do you know what? I don't need to justify myself to you. And I wasnt complaining thank you, I was merely sharing an experience I had and asking others what they thought.

I worked in food/retail for a few years when I was a student and we had regular homeless people who would sit outside and wait to be offered food. Kindly customers would bring them in and let them choose a meal but some were serious CF’s and they’d demand more than the people were really willing to give. They’d then hide the food and wait outside again for the next person to offer, they did really well most days. Some of them had MH/addiction issues and became violent. I remember one of them assaulting my (female) manager one day and another day they stole something from the store and another customer caught them so they started having a violent argument. That job was not worth the money.

Not all homeless people are harmless, many do have MH or addiction problems so I think it makes people feel uncomfortable.

I told the security guard that I thought it was really unfair. He said he was just doing his job which I understand.

Doing his job, or following orders ??????

Would you truly be happy with a homeless man sitting inside your front porch as its a 'sheltered place to sit'?

I imagine life is shitty enough when you're homeless without being made to feel like a pariah. Those who complain should realise that they aren't immune from finding themselves in the same position one day. Maybe if you see him again you could show him a kindness... I heard one homeless person recently saying they feel invisible. Maybe pass the time of day, share a sandwich or coffee to help him see not everyone is a judgmental shit.

And I know for a fact that most of them have been problematic from childhood, which is not always their fault due to undiagnosed MH issues and learning difficulties. The drugs usually came long before the homelessness and criminal convictions.

I applaud the empathy in the remainder of your post @Havingarethink, but even your childhood knowledge is not a complete picture.

I take issue with "been problematic from childhood" - seems very harsh: for all we know the problems for any of those children could have been caused by adults. How many abused kids get labelled "problems", stigmatised by those around them & left on a dead end path that only drugs appear to relieve - hence "The drugs usually came long before the homelessness and criminal convictions."?

We don't know what horrors people have survived, what awful memories might be triggering MH issues, & how much pain other people are in that they wind up self-medicating to the point of homelessness.

The one man on his own may or may not be causing a problem for anyone atm, but if the shop allows him to stay, then eventually others of similar circumstance will probably possibly come round, and that begins to create a real nuisance.

Some homeless folk are lovely.
Many are aggressive and hostile.

The shop pays for the location, and are allowed to not want their customers to feel uncomfortable, nor have them avoid shopping there.

It's a terrible situation, all around, really.

Ok.

I’m going to get flamed here.

I run a small business and a homeless man started sleeping in my doorway, at first I ignored it because I didn’t want to ask him to move and he wasn’t doing any harm.
But then he literally moved all his things there and it became like a little den, this is RIGHT on my doorway, it was winter and pregnant women were having to step over him to get into my business in the dark.

Then his mates started hanging around, he was often out of his head and there was fights, I had to lock up on my own in the dark whilst drug deals were happening 2 foot away.

It all came to a head when he glassed another homeless man in the face whilst I hid in my premises terrified out of my mind.

I eventually started ringing the police and they explained that he actually had a place in a hostel but wouldn’t go because he had to be sober, also he made good money sitting on my step as my clients are all good hearted people and would give him money, food and clothes.

In the end I had to ring the police to move him on every time I saw him as that was the only way for him to stop sitting there and for me to feel safe in my own premises.
I felt like a heartless bitch but it couldn’t go on.

I lived in USA for a few years and it is absolutely shocking the number of homeless people. Their welfare system is nothing like in the UK and it shows on the streets. It's really sad.

That's mean. I'm in NE London & our huge Tesco's security guys don't even notice the old guy who sits there daily not bothering anyone (& I seriously doubt anyone would ever complain) . They're too busy giving verbal warnings to the teens in school uniform they've caught nicking again. Even when I lived in a posher part of London, people chatted or bought food for the guy with his dog outside Sainsbury.

No child ever put it's hand up in school to say "when I grow up I want to be homeless / an addict / a scammer / have a mental illness"

These are mostly people who have been born into poor circumstances or made bad choices.

I think they deserve sympathy and support.

Of course they deserve sympathy and support.
But it’s not as simple as just leaving people be.

We have no idea about this man. Maybe he has a history of being abusive or violent and that’s why the security guard was moving him on.

I think a lot of well meaning people actually make issues like homelessness worse when they think it’s just a case of give them money and somewhere to sit and they’ll be safe and safe to be around.

We need to deal with the root of the problem which is access to mental health care and drugs and alcohol rehabilitation. Not just live in a fantasy land where all homeless people are harmless and should be allowed to sleep where they like.

Reminds me of the last time I was at Midnight Mass (many years ago). A homeless person came in and sat at the front of the church. He was drunk, but not causing any trouble.

The churchwardens removed him. Couldn't believe it. They were supposed to be Christians, and it was Christmas. You'd have thought they'd have a heart but no.

I told the security guard that I thought it was really unfair. He said he was just doing his job which I understand.

Maybe ask to see the store manager then?
Obviously the security guard does what he's told.
Probably would have taken less time than coming home to write a virtue signalling thread on MN.

@furrytoebean I completely agree. However it's not really a popular manifesto promise.

Mental health never the top of the agenda.

This is all very 'Not In My Back Yard'

Everyone thinks they should be left alone but no one would actually want them outside their house/business.

Funnily enough, I AM pretty much ashamed of living in a country which treats its poor, vulnerable and disabled so appallingly.

Recall the UN report?
Child poverty, food banks, it’s always been this bad, has it?

People country-wide working themselves stupid still unable to feed their kids properly or keep up with fuel costs in winter.

Ah, maybe they’re just frittering it all away on cigs and McShite!

Best thing to do is blame it on the needy, the dole scum, the immigrants.
That, sadly, appears to be the British way.

I’d rather have a merciful system to pay into that ensures a quality of life for everyone, than be led by toxic propaganda into tossing it all away because a few idiots abuse it.

Our political system is fucked, both left and right. The very division itself is rancid.

I wanted to add, on news last night a homeless shelter in Camden is the first in the UK to offer MH assistance. The (American) Manager crowd funded to pay the salary for a year for a psychologist. That's the way we need to go, as the statistics are that 87% of homeless have MH issues, are off any meds & slipped thru holes in the system before ending up homeless

I'm with you OP. Awful to complain if he's not bothering anyone.

@LaMarschallin how do you know that I didn't? Are you this rude in real life or just when you can hide behind a keyboard?

@Nesssie people don't live in asda though do they.