CF next door neighbour?

[babyno5]

Next door neighbour (who I'd say we get on pretty well with) collars DP the other day and says that they're getting their driveway extended and will be "reclaiming" the part of our front grass that they believe belongs to them!! This is news to us!!
We bought the house 12 years ago. They bought 15 years ago when they were built.
They are detached houses with no front fences. Their existing drive borders our grass.
We've looked at the plans and it suggests the actual border is half way between its existing position and where CF NDN wants to claim.
The grass was laid my builders and front hedge (right up to existing boundary) was also installed by builders. It makes no sense! Equally we will have the issue with neighbours on other side as it would seem technically we own a strip of their grass

I'm not sure - and hope someone will put me right if I'm wrong - but can't you lay claim to that land anyway if you have been cultivation/tending it WITH THEIR KNOWLEDGE for 12 years?

Why on earth din't they say something umpteen years ago?

You could post in legal and see if they can help.

They can reimburse you for their trees that you cut down at their request first.

They are not CF for reclaiming a property that is actually theirs, why shouldn't they?

They are CF for implying that it was baby's responsibility to pay for conifer removal, and allow them to maintain it at their own expense until it suited them.

Fight them every inch of the way, baby!

Send them the bill for tree removal etc.

Maybe they only recently looked at the deeds too? (When they started planning the driveway.)

What about the neighbours on the other side of you? Do you own a strip of their land?

In your diagram - is that path between the houses yours or theirs? If it’s theirs I would have been querying why they’d have to cut across your corner of grass to get down that path. It does make sense that that corner is their’s else they’d always be cutting over your bit of lawn.
I agree however that they should have told you when you moved in so you could have sorted it out but seems they’ve been bloody cheeky allowing you to pay for the conifer removal so have kept it quiet til now.

Maybe they only recently looked at the deeds too? (When they started planning the driveway

That’s a good point and the most likely thing to have happened. I would ask them why they didn’t pay for their own trees and see what they say. If they say they didn’t know they owned it, I would then make the decision as to whether you want to fight them or ask them to cover the last 15 years of garden maintenance and the removal of trees so you can both start afresh. That sounds like the fairest option.

So they must have been aware the land was theirs but kept their mouths shut for you to pay for the conifer removal? Then once that was all done they're claiming it back?! Cheeky bastards!!

If they haven’t queried with you over the past 12 years, or with the previous owners it is yours now. You also have the evidence of the tree invoice. You are paying to maintain it.

They are CF for implying that it was baby's responsibility to pay for conifer removal, and allow them to maintain it at their own expense until it suited them.

how can you know they had any more knowledge than the OP at the time?

They might, or they might just have gone through the details when planning their extension.

(no blame there) but the OP had the information available as well, and only just found out.

You need to get the plans from the land registry

If they've only just found out about the garden themselves, then obviously they're not CFs, but if they've known all along and asked you to pay to get their trees cut down then they're VVVCFs!

I don't think I'd be able to help a PA comment along the lines of "oh, shame we didn't realise that when I paid to have those trees cut down"

Bizarre layout though, OP. We're on a 1990s estate in detached houses and the boundary lines are all very straight and centralised. Does this mean you have a strip of land in front of your other NDN's house, or is your garden just 15 inches narrower??

I'm waiting to discover that the NDNs have their own thread going... you said that your builders laid turf all the way up to their drive? Maybe their thread be like "CF NDNs have claimed part of our front garden... AIBU to ask them to maintain the trees that are in it, then?"

Can people stop saying that the grass is OP's now as she has maintained it for 12 years if you do not know the law around adverse possession.

First, both properties are registered so it makes claims much more difficult. Secondly, you have to have taken occupation of the land to the exclusion of all others and the Land Registry will be looking for evidence to show you have excluded all others (such as fenced in it). OP has said there is no fence there, so the chance of OP being able to say they have had exclusive possession and dis-possessed the neighbour to an un-fenced piece of land open to the road next to their driveway which they may have been crossing is very low.

Maybe they didn’t realise until they decided that they wanted to pave the area. Maybe until now they didn’t realise it was their land

An adverse possession claim isn't just based on excluding all others; quite often they are mistaken boundary cases such as this one, or estoppel, where, as here to some extent, a landowner has allowed you to invest in the land, knowing all the while that it doesn't belong to you. However, as PP have pointed out, not a straightforward claim, given that it's registered land. Is there any scope for discussion on this?

I think legally you could apply to be registered owner of that strip of land, and would win on these facts.

See www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

But obv may not be worthwhile in the circs.

I would talk to the neighbours though - you’ve paid to maintain the land, they encouraged you to do so. You’re entitled to claim the land, but maybe they’d prefer to pay back your costs for avoidance of doubt.

Just for clarity-I have got the deeds, the path is theirs but doesn't allow access to the back garden (end of path is fenced but behind fence is my back garden). There is one paving slab which then accesses onto their drive so they don't have to go on grass.
No intention of disputing it.
Re the cherry tree it's in the lawyers hands as they went NC when I started pushing them. We have a contractor booked to install a mature replacement in the autumn. Will reclaim the cost back from the idiot that cut it down!!
I've contacted 3 fencing contractors to get quotes. To be honest will be quite nice not to be living in a goldfish bowl 😂

they didn't tell you for 12 years because they wanted you to make the effort to maintain it at your own expense.
Now that it will add value to their property they're demanding it back.

I wouldn't be giving it to them after they deliberately kept quiet about it for 12 years - and i'd be wanting all my money and labour costs back!

Do you have legal advice with your home insurance? If so contact them.

Is it necessarily the case that they've known all along though? Possibly they only just double checked the deeds themselves because they wanted to have the drive done.

At my previous house I owned the side path like in your picture, however, directly in front of the path was a laurel hedge. All well and good except the hedge then curved round in front of next door neighbours garden so it looked like the hedge belonged to next door. Luckily it was a new build and I was the first to move in so my part of the laurel hedge was removed and replanted to thicken up another hedge and a different type of plant was used as a hedge to make the boundary clear

This sounds really similar to our situation and DP wants to redo the driveway at some point and claim the portion of next doors front garden that belongs to us. I have rolled my eyes and said he needs to talk to them before he goes ahead as otherwise all hell is going to break loose.

Gracefully take it on the chin but say that in return you'd like them to not store their bins down the path in between the houses. Why should you have the smell of their bins close to your living room window?