AIBU to feel that the ‘Labour against Private Schools’ campaign is a scapegoat for a lack of vision for educational reform?

[BusyMum1978]

2500 UK independent schools with 615K children attending which is 7% of the population of children in FT education up to the age of 16. A number of articles published this week have highlighted the campaign supported by Labour MP’s, who are calling for a number of measures impacting Independent Schools including their complete abolishment, and for these schools to become part of the state school system. A real hatred seems to be forming, and it feels to me like an easy smoke screen to put up rather than the Labour Party providing very specific policies to show how state funded education will be reformed.

I completely understand the feeling behind the imminent appointment of our 20th Etonian PM - there is urgent reform required in politics to have equal representation which I wholeheartedly agree with. I also understand the recently published stats showing accelerated social mobility for those attending top independent schools. I am not saying that there aren’t areas for improvement- but is the objective to bring more children up, or to bring the independently educated 7% down to make it ‘fair’?

My children both attend a prep school, and they are the first generation in both mine and my husband’s family to do so. We aren’t rich, neither of us have a degree, we own one property. We have -and continue to- work hard and made a choice to invest in our children’s education. We know we are privileged to be able to do so. To hear that MP’s want to wage a ‘class war’ with a family like mine feels inflammatory and yet more decisiveness in an already fractured country.

My children started their education in a state primary school but quite honestly it wasn’t good enough, and our heads were turned by what the private sector had to offer.

It equally broke my heart and inspired me to read The Times article on The Willow in Broadwater Farm school. Schools like this desperately need funding and further support, as do a range of children’s services which were cut during austerity. However will abolishing independent schools help a school like this? Parents who have money will still gravitate to the best areas / schools, and get tutors etc. There are a large number of selective state secondary schools that require heavy tutoring to access.

We need to nurture brilliant young minds in this country, to plug the UK skills gap, and compete in a global market. The independent sector has a valuable role to play.

Progress and globalisation is happening at such a rate that it’s becoming a bit uncomfortable. Many jobs our children will do haven’t even been invented yet.

The independent schools could work more closely with the state sector, but it concerns me that this campaign is chasing an ideal, and if successful would just shift the problem elsewhere.

"Students from wealthy homes do better in terms of salary. So that means abolish private schools?"

Read what I posted, another strawman.

I said that there was little point abolishing private schools because the private schooling is only part of the issue.

"You arguments are all about bringing down those who do well in an ill-conceived plan to achieve equality of outcomes"

Another strawman, I never made these arguments.

Children from these homes don't do better because of anything that they earned, they do better because of luck of birth, now that isn't anything to be criticised or blamed on anyone.

However, once we recognise that the success is not merely down to effort and good decisions, but a vast amount of it based on luck, then we need to look at the narratives people use to talk about the poor, and also to look at the taxation system to make sure that we can improve the equality of opportunity.

Because of course, when a significant part of your success is down to unearned privileges, you can't claim the " I worked hard for my money" shit.

This idea of wealthy parents is so wrong

No it isn't. Anyone who can choose private education is wealthy. Ds has a scholarship and a small bursary, we drive shitty cars and won't have a holiday for a couple of years but even I wouldn't have the gall to say we are not wealthy. Of course private school parents are wealthy, apart from the tiny fraction on 100 percent bursaries.

Why should parents with a particular ethos towards discipline, who choose to be very involved in their children's upbringing not have the choice to spend their money to send their kids to a school where they know that parents won't be causing major disruption to how the school chooses to instil strong civic duties?

Yep packing your kids off to boarding school for house parents to raise, is being very involved in your childrens education and upbring lol!

Sionnachbeag, if "that was the point you were making" with regards to confidence and the so-called whole package, explain to me how abolishing private schools will help those in state schools acquire this confidence, especially when said confidence, etc is largely formed in the home environment.

Even if private schools are abolished, help me understand how you would stop parents with the will and the means from finding ways to boost their child's confidence and other life skills that can give them the edge.

My child does not deserve a better education than yours, whatever the money sitting in my bank account
Meanmate why do you deserve all that money in your bank account when lots of people have got nothing in theirs?

So did I (although using my doctorate in a different way), but there's no way I'd choose the same for my children. Your mum also obviously preferred for you to receive your education in the UK.

No she didn't, don't make lazy assumptions. She met her future husband on a work trip and decided to move here so they could be together. Also because she already spoke English and would have an easier time finding work here than the other way round.

Having gone to school in England around the time that everybody and their dog was getting A*s, GCSE Chemistry was about microwaves/farming and having had a shit time at school, in hindsight she probably would have preferred me to go to school where we came from (where the education system is pretty good). She was definitely pushing for me to go to uni there.

Bloody ridiculous idea there will always be discrepancy and differences between people and what they can afford labour or getting to the point of ridiculous mess and I can’t see myself ever bringing myself to vote for them if they carry on with this hate anyone with a bit of money Mentra
Don’t Get me wrong I’m not a Tory fan at the moment either but I will certainly not be voting labour

Jasjas, yep. Use a minority example to make a big point. Pray tell, how many of these parents who send their kids to private schools are sending them to boarding schools. Boarding schools are a small fraction of private schools and the proportion of students that board at boarding schools are even smaller. So a small fraction of a small fraction. Moreover, boarding schools are used predominantly by overseas parents.

So, how exactly does this play into the ban private schools argument? The overwhelming majority of UK parents who use private schools do not send their kids off as boarders.

The huge advantage with private education is the tiny class sizes, one on one and extra tuition and the contacts they gain having gone to a particular school, plus of course the access to sport and music facilities, denied state schooled children

Personally, i 'd scrap Grammar way before Private, they take out many of the best children and parents from the state sector, something most schools would benefit from.

" explain to me how abolishing private schools"

You aren't worth debating, I've stated repeatedly that I never said this was a good idea.

If you are the product of a private school I'd ask for my money back.

If you are the product of a private school I'd ask for my money back.

Yeouch

Yes scrap grammar. I agree with this statement.

Anyone with cash to spare will just tutor anyway so it wouldn’t solve anything.

No, my ds doesn't deserve his education any more than any other kid. But it's on offer and we can afford it, so...

And by the way, ladies and gentlemen, before you say anything else about the evils of communism, you may want to read up on the education system in the Soviet Union and remember that it was that communist education system that got the country from the literacy rate of about 25% in the pre-revolution days to putting the first human into space in the space of 44 years, with a major war in between.

Wow. Well that really makes up for all those millions of people murdered in the Soviet Union.

Grammar schools have a far more detrimental effect on local comprehensives than private schools ever would.

18% of privately educated children are boarders and its rising.

All hail Mother Russia!

@PissedOffProf You have entirely missed the point of my post.

Seems that you are more interested in demonising private school kids than trying to raise educational standards for all.

Clearly wealthy means different things to different people. People on the national average income sacrificing to send their kids to private school is not my idea of wealthy. Two parents earning the national average, with two kids isn't wealthy. The stats show that such parents are certainly not a tiny minority in terms of representation in the private education sector.

The idea of wealth has become pretty skewed.

WTF has Russia to do with anything? or is it Corbyns fault? lol

Most education systems do not have such a large private sector, yet out perform the UK across most areas?

Surely we should try and learn from these countries?

I agree with scrapping grammar schools. It's not normal to only be around clever & rich people just like it's not normal to only be around white people. It's like growing up in a fake bubble and then as an adult you just don't know how to deal with people who aren't like the ones you grew up around.

Having gone to one, I would never send my kids to a grammar school.

What a ridiculous argument for communism

Jasjas, what proption of this small number are from abroad? I can tell you quite factually that it's the majority. So again, how is that an argument for abolishing private schools. It is exactly as someone said, that 18% would simply go elsewhere, out of the UK.

Rather than going further down the communist route, why don't Labour say they'll start with investing more in things like the arts, music, sport at schools, investing more in SEN support too, improving conditions and pay for teachers, investing in child mental health services.

The problem is with all the public sectors and every single government since probably World War II is all they ever do is put a sticking plaster on no one ever turns ahead no one ever invest money for the future