To think the Nursery should help him learn to behave in a group?

[EastEndQueen]

Feeling a little sad and panicky so please be gentle.

My DS1 is 2 years and 9 months and just started doing two mornings a week at a small private Montessori pre-school/ nursery with a view to starting full days in September. Up till now he has been at home with a wonderful nanny who has taken him to lots of groups/ play dates etc. But we thought as he was coming up for 3 it would be time to get used to the extra stimulation/ getting used to being in a group.

I have just returned to work after maternity leave and the plan is that his nanny will care for DS2 (4 months) full time plus DS1 when not at nursery. He had two trial mornings last week which went well. So far so good.

Today (4th morning ever at nursery) his nanny just rang me at work to say that they were cross when she picked him up and said he had thrown a few toys (obviously not ok and I would expect him to be told off/ given time out for this as he would at home) and that they couldn’t have that behaviour as the Montessori system as they use real glass etc and he could hurt someone. They said if he is like this then they will have to take his place away as he is not ready for Montessori.

I don’t know is IABU but surely it’s slightly their job to help him get used to group settings/ moderating his behaviour etc and it’s far too early just to give up on him?

I suppose I’m also stressed because he does have difficulty following the group activities at things like Gymboree/ art class and in the back of my mind I am worried about ADHD etc. He always wants to be doing his own thing! But I thought the best thing would be to get him settled into a group setting and then see if it got better with time.

What does everyone think? I know obviously his nanny can care for two of them at once, but it’s more just the instant rejection of him in a group setting that makes me sad and worry that something is wrong with him.

Incidentally I didn’t choose the nursery because of any overriding obsession with Montessori, it was just nearby, friendly and had space.

As the others said, throwing stuff is very normal behaviour for a 2 year old. Mine did similar and we had to work hard with him for a while getting him to stop. Before that it was hitting. Now he’s a reasonably well behaved non-violent 4 year old who never throws stuff!
Two is very young for behaving well in a group setting. Could you try another nursery instead? One that doesn’t use glass??
I understand that throwing stuff is dangerous but that’s why both you and the nursery staff just need to come down hard on him when he does it and make sure he knows how serious it is. It doesn’t mean it’s a reason to exclude him!! Maybe see what they say but it doesn’t sound like a great fit.

My 3yo ds attends a Montessori and was there from 16months , it really is such a brilliant method of teaching and learning but doesnt suit all children.
4 days in and they could hardly make such a judgement of him. And besides why are they discussing this with the nanny, they should be speaking to you.

2 year old children and real glass? Sod that. I'd move the wee lad.

I agree with you its far too early to make any judgement, my dd started nursery at 18 months before then she had a nanny, after 2 days they said she needed speech therapy, she should be talking more, have move vocab, and they couldn't work on it without putting her in a room with younger kids, I said she chatted lots but adult style chat , more likely to sing along to pop songs than nursery rhymes, she wasn't understanding their where is the choo choo, show me the choo choo that was blatantly in front of their face, they disagreed I said I'd give it a month to let her settle in , a week later I was called to tell me that they were putting her in older children's room, as yes indeed her speech and skills were more suited to the older kids room, so these people haven't had enough time to get to know your LO.

I'd ask to set up a call to speak to manager and ask her not to relay comments like that to your nanny, and you don't know who said what exactly, and ultimately its not your nanny's call, that you absolutely agree he cant behave like that but, its a very new scenario for him, the very reason he is attending is to help him build these skills, had he done it other days? if not do they normally allow a child under 3 only one chance? say what would happen at home if he did that, and say you want to support them so what do they do, if they say they will give a warning then do x agree you will do the same. I think if you show you understand and will back them up but its still their job it should help.

ex childminder here - h & s cant imagine what ofted check would have said about me using glass for dc at that age! unless they were very carefully 1 to 1 supervised - crikey! & than blaming dc for their lack of supervision? Bet they don't have dc with special needs there! (which always begs how they get away with this?)

They sound ridiculous!!!

A lot of 2 year olds go through a phase of throwing toys. My little one turns 3 at the end of October and has done this a few times this week. He got hold off and time out and it stopped. I do think at your sons age he should be able to sit and eat at a table, use his fork, follow basic instructions (I.e take your plate to the table).

As for the nursery they dong sound great. I don’t know much about a Montessori nursery but it doesn’t sound like the right setting for a child that can’t sit still for long (don’t know many toddlers that can to be honest and by nature they are curious and inquisitive).

Dd got kicked out of Montessori after 7 sessions, she later was diagnosed with autism but their reasoning was at 2 she should be more cooperative and sharing. My younger dd (no asd) went to a different kind of preschool and lots of the kids were unable to share! First dd got into a special ed programme that was excellent

Glass for 2 yos is bonkers. If they are going to be this dismissive about a toddler, I wouldn’t be happy to continue to use them.

I think they sound incredibly precious. If they're going to use real glass with 2 year olds then surely they'd expect to monitor them very closely!

As pp have said go and talk to themfjnd out about what happened from their perspective as you weren't there.

On another note my just 3 and 5 yo went the Montessori route and use normal glassware and ceramics without incident on a daily basis!

The red flag for me here is that he has only done 4 mornings and the staff were “cross”. That is a ridiculous way for them to act at this early stage and bearing in mind his age.

To give you a point of comparison, my DS is about the same age and has been in nursery 3 days a week since he was 14 months. He’s just moved up into their “preschool” setting and at all stages the staff have been really good at teaching behaviour (sharing, waiting turns, not hitting/throwing etc) and I know that in occasion he has misbehaved and they have dealt with it appropriately and not made a big deal of it to him or to us- they definitely see it as part of what we pay for. We in turn reinforce the things that they teach (“switch in your listening ears” is a stroke of genius!).
The nursery is also big on settling in gradually both for new starters and when children move rooms to the next stage up, they would not be saying anything definitive after only 4 mornings!

One thing that you do have the benefit of, OP, is a nanny who presumably has training, so she should have a good sense of whether this nursery’s approach is out of kilter with the norm. Use her expertise to help you work out what’s best.

On balance though, if you can work things out with this nursery or find another one I do think that it is brilliant for their development and socialisation. My DS has absolutely thrived in nursery.

Good luck!

“Switch ON your listening ears” not in.

I think it's a nursery problem not your child. A good nursery should be able to cope with pretty much any child - and there is support for all early years settings with children with extra needs. They also shouldn't be discussing such matters with the Nanny but should be contacting you first (yes to say he'd got upset over X or had a small cut, but not any major behavioural concerns).

I’m surprised. Montessori was started to teach children with additional needs and done properly behavioural management is core, so why are they saying this? I’d want a long chat. I would travel far to have a Montessori nursery so for me I’d want to understand what on Earth was going on.

Hi OP, as you probably know from your own work, the term "Montessori" isn't copyrighted or owned so often there isn't a great deal of consistency across different nurseries which call themselves "Montessori" and standards vary a lot. I think it is a good ethos and can work for most (not all) children if the setting is right.

Montessori is neither here nor there though when it comes to the fact that your son's nursery teachers are saying this to you about him so soon. They may be trying to flag things early and keep you in the loop, but if so they're going about it strangely!

I have worked in a Montessori nursery and school (all accredited, fully "Montessori") and there were certainly throwers and tantrums, especially amongst the younger (two year old) children, and with some of the SEN children. The staff would work with parents to devise strategies to help the children in question slowly learn to manage their behaviour and ensure all the children stayed safe. A toddler who might throw a plate or glass would be gently supervised one on one during lunch, for example, and given extra praise for being careful when pouring water, washing and drying their dishes, etc.

If you really like his nursery, could you manage to find time to go along with your nanny and have a meeting to discuss strategies and also voice any concerns of your own and ask for their support? Their response will tell you a lot. Perhaps you and your nanny could help reinforce the Montessori principles at home.

But you say you aren't wedded to Montessori but just liked this particular nursery -- so if things don't improve, definitely shop around! There could be somewhere else that is a perfect fit for your son! Lots of physical space and opportunity to be outdoors might suit him if he has a lot of energy to burn.

If you aren't wedded to the Montessori ethos then I'd find somewhere that can let your normal 2yo behave safely doing normal 2yo things. My eldest was never a joiner inner, and still makes up her own rules if we go to clubs, in schools she is much happier leading activities and other children seem happy to take her direction, I stressed about it for a while, she's fine.

Glass around babies. That'd be the negative deal breaker for me. It only takes them to drop a glass and fall on to it and it ending up in their eye or neck. They talk about safe guarding. How is that safe.

My son got into trouble for barging about (knocking over other children!) and throwing toys a couple of weeks ago and he's 3.5 and been at nursery since he was 14 months... it is just a thing that some small children do sometimes. He's much better now we (and nursery) have put a reward system in place and hasn't done it since, so yes, of course the nursery should have strategies in place to discourage this sort of thing! It's laughable that they don't to be honest.

Of course kids barge and bound around. They're just like baby elephants very clumsy.

@Awwlookatmybabyspider it tends to be those thicker tempered glass ones that are pretty hard to break. They're not far from ground level because everything is child-sized, and actual babies would be in a different room or not in a Montessori setting yet (some only start at 2/3). And an adult would be there in a split second if it did break (happened once in my time, in the school rather the nursery).

Just to maybe set your mind at ease a little – I can see how it must seem!

It's not ridiculous to say nanny may have her own agenda here.
It's telling that nursery were not concerned enough to call the parent. If they were so 'cross' and were thinking of excluding a child they would have done that surely! They can't communicate such things to the nanny. She's not the one paying them.
May nannies charge more per child! Why shouldn't they? One child is less work than two. Perfectly standard thing to do in these parts.
Unless OP speaks to nursery she's not going to get to the bottom of this. Nursery would have no charges if this is really their attitude.

He is 2, they throw things, it's what they do. I wouldn't want my child in a nursery that sees this as a problem..

My 5 ye old was exactly like this when he turned 3 l, wasn't interested in any group things or sitting in a circle, too busy doing his own thing. The nursery staff were patient and just kept trying... he got to grips with it alll when he was about 4. Nothing wrong with him.

It's shit that they have given up so quickly on him rather than working on it themselves.. surely they have plenty of small children who can't do group activities!

Is nanny a native English speaker? I’m wondering if something has got lost in translation here.