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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you shouldn't work before contract starts?

58 replies

chazwomaq · 12/07/2019 11:12

My partner has got a job at a secondary school, starting in September. But they want her to come in for visiting days where the children who will be starting come in for 2 days to see the school and meet their teachers.

She won't be paid for this. From the teachers' point of view, it's managing a whole class for 2 days. She has to plan activities and so on.

I understand it's a good idea for everyone to meet each other, but I think the school should be paying her (but she doesn't want to even ask). Are the school being cheeky?

OP posts:
Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 12:26

@Barbie222 and others

Stop. This is not normal and she/he should be paid if they are teaching (full planning and delivering lessons) and would be paid in many schools. I have been. This is a profession and with your partner, they are a professional in the classroom. We have to stop the corrosion of this space and that, unfortunately means taking the risk that someone might see you as difficult (really, have we come to this/gone back to this when a professional asking for pay for their time in a professional capacity is seen as difficult?).

Or is it the fear that they will be seen as difficult? understandable but she will have to stand her ground at some point in teaching. Might as well start now

herculepoirot2 · 12/07/2019 12:34

Or is it the fear that they will be seen as difficult? understandable but she will have to stand her ground at some point in teaching. Might as well start now

This.

I would write an email along the lines of the one suggested above, assuming I would be paid. If pay were to be refused, I would say something like, “I completely understand if budgetary considerations mean this is not possible. I am not in a position to work two days unpaid, as I’m sure will be appreciated, but I hope they have a great experience and I look forward to meeting them all in September.”

Strongly discourage your partner from working for free. They will walk all over her if she does this.

Moomooboo · 12/07/2019 12:37

it's normal - also benefits her because she will be able to hit the ground running in September.

if she's an nqt starting her first term in September then it's v useful. Also she probably would have a teacher in the room with her and not be expected to run the show.

As an nqt she will be planning her own lessons. She probably would want to start planning a few things during the summer hols before she starts as otherwise it can just all pile up and become unmanageable when she starts.

The school is not dependant on her coming in, but it's helpful for her and the students for her to do so. She could always ask about getting paid for these days though.

herculepoirot2 · 12/07/2019 12:40

it's normal - also benefits her because she will be able to hit the ground running in September.

If her presence on these two days is necessary in order for her to do her job in September, she ought to be paid. If the school invites her to spend those two days in school if she feels it would help her, that’s very different m.

trinity0097 · 12/07/2019 12:42

This is perfectly normal. You don’t lose pay from your old job for this kind of thing, heads allow it as they all need it for their school too, just like letting people have time off for interviews.

Disfordarkchocolate · 12/07/2019 12:42

As a parent, I would want to know that insurance was valid and that there was a DBS in place for this employer.

Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 12:43

@Moomooboo

It is not normal. That is not to say that it doesn't happen. They are two distinct things.

Don't let it become the norm. This is pay for work. If she was going in to meet a class/ick something up from the resources room, then maybe but even then it is related to her job and something she is doing for the benefit of the job.

We need to remember our own value, here. The moment we stop seeing what we do through the prism of professionalism, we legitimate that treatment from others. Very hard in teaching, I know but her time is money. Would her bank freeze the interest on her mortgage payments for two days because she is a teacher? Do shops lower their prices? Schools wanted a market philosophy and that means paying teachers properly (as well as other staff).

floraloctopus · 12/07/2019 13:00

It's agreed amongst schools that the school you work for now would pay you for this as they get the same benefit with new teachers coming to visit them from other schools, however how long that will last is anyone's guess.

She really does need to talk to them if she wants to get paid but TBH I'd probably just put up with it and chalk it up to goodwill but then I'm a softie.

shockthemonkey · 12/07/2019 13:00

In her position I'd be so excited about the new job that I would not begrudge a couple of days unpaid work before the start of the contract.

So I voted YABU but I can see both sides really, especially since primary teachers are paid nowhere near their worth.

shockthemonkey · 12/07/2019 13:01

sorry, make that secondary teachers

supersop60 · 12/07/2019 13:04

Insurance? DBS? pay? All of these should be in place before you start being in charge of a class of children. The kids will survive not meeting you beforehand.

Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 13:06

I understand that people see this 'as a couple of days work' which won't break the bank but really, we need to see this as a couple of days WORK. People talk about invisible labour and here it is - if they have to pay someone over the course of the year to do this job then they should pay for the two days because it is work. That is two days when she could be earning money elsewhere and I think it is worth thinking about whether she doesn't want to get off on the wrong foot but you have to ask - who was it that positioned a ladder with missing rungs there in the first place ?

Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 13:08

and by that I mean the school should have offered to pay for her time (yes, I can hear you all laughing)

PancakeAndKeith · 12/07/2019 13:10

Perfectly standard.

Becca19962014 · 12/07/2019 13:11

incandescant I had a similar experience but at FE college. I was devastated and then found out it was something they regularly did and the subject then no longer needed specialist teaching.

OP I wouldn't do this unpaid. But then after my experiences in education (all except primary) I've been shafted in many ways and this sounds similar to an experience I had at secondary school who decided after the two days I was no longer required.

I also think supergirl makes a very good point regarding professionalism. I've seen that happen with another profession and the instant regret people felt the moment they were no longer seen in that professional light and as highly regarded as before.

7sausagedoggys · 12/07/2019 13:12

All the NQTs who are starting in our department as of September have been in for a few days over the past few weeks to get to know the school, procedures, expectations etc. To be honest she is likely to be thrown in at the deep end in September so going in now will definitely help. They don't get paid for it in our school.

Xenia · 12/07/2019 13:12

They certainly cannot require it - the 2 days of full teaching seems a bit much to me and they need to sort out the insurance side. Also if the person cannot get time off their existing job and would haev to find and pay for 2 days of childcare then it's not an easy request to have made of them.

Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 13:14

@PancakeAndKeith nonsense

Gilbert1A · 12/07/2019 13:18

This reply has been deleted

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Foxyloxy1plus1 · 12/07/2019 13:21

Every school I ever worked in, had a day or two days like this. I was always working at my previous post, so had to request permission from the current head teacher to go to the new school. If your partner is working, she’ll be paid by the school she’s at now. If not, I guess there would be no money because the school will still be paying the teacher who is leaving.

It’s good for getting to know a bit about the school, form room and form. It definitely helps if you know your way around and have met people before September

Supergirlthesecond · 12/07/2019 13:24

I give up

superram · 12/07/2019 13:24

If she currently has a job her current school will pay her salary. Surely you don’t expect both schools to pay her? If she doesn’t have a current job she should be paid supply-they won’t start her contract or they will have to pay her over the summer.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 12/07/2019 13:26

That is two days when she could be earning money elsewhere

But she might still be earning money elsewhere. It probably varies from LA to LA but as a PP days in many LAs there is an understanding that they school you move from pays for the days. If the OP’s oartner is already in a school, she needs to find out whether she’s not being paid at all or whether she is being released by her current school while still being paid.

Under no circumstances should she do it without being paid at all.

Fink · 12/07/2019 13:28

It's completely normal, if not universal. I have, on the grapevine, heard of schools who pay, but most don't. I did a full week's residential trip abroad before starting my NQT year. I got a keyring as a thank you. After NQT, it's assumed that you will still be being paid by the school you're leaving, so you're not going to get paid twice for the same day.

MrsWombat · 12/07/2019 13:29

My school pays it's NQTs who do this as it's cheaper than agency staff. The experienced teachers just come in for a quick meet with their new class and fill out some paperwork with the office while they are here.

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