To ask you how the hell I can fix 5 year olds sleep. HELP

[Grobagsforever]

DD aged 5 has been great a sleeper. Now for a week she has been waking frequently in the night and refusing to go back to sleep unless I lie down with her and play her sleep stories. I've had 3-4 hours sleep a night max all week.

I have another daughter and work full time. I'm Widowed and have been since before DD was born, I've patenting completely alone for 5 years and I'm completely burnt out, if I don't get physical sleep I will crack or end up crashing the car or something.

She goes to sleep listening to sleep stories and with me cuddling her at the start of the night. Perhaps this is the issue.

I need a method to fix this. She says she is scared in the night. She's not even alone, her sister is in with her.

Can I do sleep training at her age? Leave her for increasing intervals?

I am broken. I can't even stay in the room with her when she's yelling she can't sleep as I get so angry so I have to leave.

I've been doing this alone, carrying the grief for so long, please don't judge me, just give me strategies

Have you checked she doesn’t have threadworms? Might be a reason for a good sleeper to suddenly start waking in the night.

I’m sorry grobags (in a previous name, I remember when your husband was first taken into hospital).

I take it resorting to bribery is not working. Would you have her in your bed so you can get more sleep?

Has her Dad died recently? Could it be related to that?

If it's been a week if could be anything and something that hopefully can pass quickly. A bad dream, a bad day at school, illness are all things that can make my DC do similar (they're 4 and 6).

Will she sleep in your bed with you? Honestly, I just do that with mine now If it means everyone gets some sleep.

I can only imagine how hard it must be for you to be on your own having lost a partner. Is there any family or friends around you who could help out so you can get a break or a rest? If you're desperate could you take a few days off work and sleep in the day while your DC are at school?

my now 6 year old goes through phases like that. he’s genuinely afraid, so he just sleeps in my bed during these phases.
both of mine are terrible sleepers - astonishingly you can get used to 4-5 hours sleep as well (i work full time as well). its horrible though.

I fully empathise. Doing it alone is hard. I think it is going to take time and you are going to have to work on the bedtime routine as well as the routine in the night. Reduce down the interaction in the evening. Maybe get a glow-bear glow in the dark teddy she can cuddle or glow in the dark carebear. Consider a homemade bottle of essential oil spray that is a monster/bad dreams spray...also diffusing lavender/chamomile in bedroom? Explain what will happen from now on, that you are both needing sleep and there will be rules in night and stick to them...go in to check she’s not been sick etc, give one cuddle and one reminder it’s sleep time (and maybe spray monster spray) then leave. Go in again five min later if need be and say again, etc etc etc. Do a reward chart.
The bedtime is important as they need to learn to settle on own. But at this age in a way it’s easier than when much younger as you can discuss it calmly during the day. Don’t allow yelling, as clearly nobody can sleep whilst yelling so have that as a discussed rule. If she wants the stories on them she must not yell...and follow through.
I have been at times absolutely drained with exhaustion and had no family to support...you can find yourself doing things that short term help but not long term, you need to find the energy to follow through with whatever routines you decide for your and DDs long term health and safety. Good luck, you can do this.

Ah love this is such a difficult situation, I really feel for you. Normally I'd say be strict but I wonder if, at 5, she's developed her cognitive skills enough to understand "dad died" and she's anxious about you dying too or something? She probably can't quite verbalise it.

No she is not coming into my bed, that's MY space. I can't function if I don't get actual space. No it's not about Dad. I only shared that so posters understood I am alone. I don't want friends or family to step in and help, I want an actual plan for fixing this. I need a sleep training method. This has to be fixed, or I cannot work/drive etc.

No I can't take time off work, I need the leave to cover the school holidays.

@MrsTeaspoon thanks the spray and intervals might work

I can only say that I am a massive fan of sleep training. I think children who see their parents make decisions with an obvious rationale and stick to them find it quite reassuring.

TBH in your situation if I had any spare cash I would pay for a sleep consultant, simply because you sound as if your personal resources are so low. With a third party it will be quicker, more neutral, just plain easier. Do you have anyone who wiuld normally give you a Christmas present, can you ask them instead?

Can you separate the two kids so one isn't going to wake the other?

Then you have got to be firm. She isn't a baby now.

Are you literally in with her until she falls asleep each evening? She needs to learn how to fall asleep on her own, what on earth will you do when she's in juniors and gets invited to sleepovers etc?

Start by doing stories and cuddles but leaving before she is asleep

Sorry OP just read re your partner.

It might not be wholly about that but I can imagine you want/need an approach that isnt going to add to emotional upheaval for either of you.

Go gradually, but be very consistent with her. Maybe set some rules eg tell her well in advance what you will do e.g. stories and a cuddle before bed, going in once more after bedtime if she us struggling but no more, then reinforce with a reward chart to reward fewer and fewer instances where she calls for you at night?

I’d sleep train to be honest. You need sleep too to be able to function.

I’d maybe try a reward chart too for if she sleeps all night?

Can you do the "mum has to go and check on something, I'll be back in 5 minutes " and then when you go back make another excuse and gradually increase the intervals? I did this when one of mine had similar issues. If she thinks you are coming back eventually she might not mind and if she stays quiet she might fall asleep alone.
Summer holidays could be a good time to tackle it in case it takes a while for her to nod off.

Sleep training - I’m a huge fan. There are lots of different methods so you can find one which fits with you and your parenting. It will be tough initially I’d perhaps book some time off work if you can.
I always recommend the sleep consultant I used with my two - www.katiefischersleepconsultant.co.uk/ she does an initial consult for free so will be able to tell you if she can help. Her pricing is fair and transparent.
Good luck

Cristianne Kerr does some lovely guided meditations for kids, called relax kids. They are on Spotify or you can buy cds. Properly lovey, and always start with a worry tree to hang your worries on. Worth a try?

Also maybe a small torch so if she's awake and it's dark she could have some light?

And finally a curve ball. Have you considered an osteopath? I take my kids to one for a couple of reasons and they adore it. Helps with their bodies, with tension and with a feeling of well being and being looked after. They also sleep ridiculously well after a session. A weird one, not for everyone but I'd highly recommend it... Worth trying everything, eh?

Good luck. It sounds like you're spent. I hope things get easier for you

Another thing op, do you use any sort of night light? Loads of them are (stupidly) a bit blue in colour and this actually makes kids more alert not less. We got a lumie bedbug thing as a bedside lamp, it has a sunset setting which takes about 10-15 mins to go from normal light through pink to red, it is magic, my son goes all dozy while its on & any bedtime resistance disappears! You can also have the red setting on as a night light, red light doesn't wake kids at if they do stir at night.

As an emergency stop gel: Sleeping bag on the floor of your room. If she is anxious, she can come camp out with you but she can’t wake you up. That coupled with a nice talk about the importance of sleep, and what happens when you don’t sleep. Brainstorm together ideas that she can do in the night that will help relax her ie: headphones to listen to her stories, to singing songs in her head. Because you are not going to come and sleep with her every night because everyone needs sleep. Have that conversation now, during the day, so it’s not in the middle of the night when everyone is exhausted. 5 is a perfect age to have her ‘help’ find solutions to her problem. Plus I think it will help you suss out what the actual root of the issue is.

Absolutely you can sleep train at that age. If it’s waking, I agree check no worms etc and consider how much drink shes having before bed.
There could be all sorts of reasons; it’s been very hot here this week but she’s talking herself into being frightened.

Does a nightlight cause shadows? Are curtains billowing in a breeze?
Look at the environment through her eyes.

Then yes, a sleep spray (lavender is good on a pilllow), a kind but explicit “It’s sleep time” and back to sleep with a new (or old) special soft toy with built in ‘protection control’, “Timmy Tiger is going to keep you safe whilst you sleep”.

It’s one of those times a practicing faith can help. Children get a sleep prayer and established view that their guardian angel will look after them. Won’t work for you, I guess.
I think a five year old is capable of understanding that it’s sleep time. I’d almost go cold turkey after a gentle pillow spray and guardian toy. Then on any second visit I’d be a bit firmer in the no, it’s sleep time.
Not sleeping isn’t good for anyone, you’re right.

Star chart and reward for undisturbed nights too.

Mine did this recently and it turned out she had worms. Could it be that?

When my 5yro doesn’t want to go (back or) to sleep without me I tell her quite quickly that me staying simply isn’t an option. But then I soften the blow with leaving the door open, putting on her nightlight and letting her listen to a story (or watch something for 15mins) so her mind gets taken off things and most importantly: allow her to have MY teddy for a night. It’s a great big elephant from Ikea. Very well loved and normally spends every night in bed with me so smells of me. So for my girls, getting “the elephant” (he has a name...) is a big deal and they cuddle with him all night long. So far that has worked.

Thanks all, lots of useful input,

Tonight we will try a brand new dragon cuddling toy to 'guard' her, sleep spray and I will go back at increasing intervals e.g 5, then 7, then 10.

Good luck, let us know how you get on