To think if you're working from home, you're working?

[TheTitOfTheIceberg]

I'm primarily office based but work from home one or very occasionally two days per week. This is a reasonable adjustment to help me manage a disability.

On another forum recently there was a thread about home working. Around 60% of the people who posted said that they spent part of their day doing housework, childcare, going to an appointment, taking a pet to the vet or similar - the majority giving the impression they viewed this as a perk of home working.

I was very much in the minority of people who said that we treat it as a day at work just in different surroundings - we log on, we crack on, we have a lunch break, we log on again, we crack on, we log off when the working day is over. We're not doing the hoovering or in and out hanging out washing or nipping out to the park with the kids for an hour.

I have some flexibility around start / finish times so long as I'm contactable during core hours (10-3) and sometimes I'll arrange to WFH on a day I have a disability-related hospital appointment because the hospital is closer to home than it is the office so I'll be away from work for less time, but that's always with my manager's knowledge and agreement. (And I'm on leave this week before anyone thinks I'm being a hypocrite and MNing in work time )

AIBU to think it's people who treat WFH like it's a day to get caught up with chores or look after kids on an inset day with work as an inconvenience to fit in here and there who contribute to many managers' reluctance to agree WFH requests for fear their staff will be doing exactly this sort of thing rather than working?

I used to WFH once a week and it wasn’t viral that I was online between set hours. I did however do a full days work, it just might have been with a two hour lunch break and some work done afterDD was in bed, or start a bit later so I could do the school run. It depends on the nature of the job I suppose. I do know some people don’t see it as a full working day though as I have a friend who WFH and basically sees it as a day off but with her work phone switched on.

YABU the obvious difference is:

no commute, so I would have time to do housework before 9am, as opposed to leaving the house at 7.50am
During my morning/afternoon coffee break-10mins I could do something, e.g hang up the washing
During my lunch break i could do something productive

I dont think people are necessarily skiving during their working hours.

Eh?

Surely the flexibility is most of the benefit? You don't have a massive commute, so you can load the washer, make a coffee, start work at getting-on-the-train time, do an hour, unload the washer and drink coffee, do another couple of hours, sweep the kitchen floor while having a mandatory few minutes' screenbreak for eye health, drink more coffee, start again...?

(On second thoughts, maybe I drink too much coffee.)

I WFH full time. I start at normal time in the morning and work until normal time in the afternoon. I often eat lunch at my desk if I'm busy. However I do throw the odd bit of laundry in the machine or empty the dishwasher whilst the kettle is boiling. I certainly do a full days work but if I was in the office I'd have to walk to the coffee machine and wait on a coffee - my load of laundry takes no longer!

Today I started at 9, worked until lunchtime and took dog out for half an hour before taking my sandwich back to my desk for my next meeting. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Instead of spending 30 mins in work canteen I spent it in a field!

I agree with most of what you have said. When I'm working from home, I work.

I know some people that decide to go and shower at 11am if they are WFH. You wouldn't do that in the middle of the day if you were in the office, so you shouldn't do it if you're WFH.

I think YABU to say you shouldn't be able to WFH for childcare on inset days as I assume the children can entertain themselves and you just need to be around to keep an eye on them. Otherwise you would have other arrangements.

I’m a FT homeworker - this week I’ve been online everyday at 7am. I go to the gym mid morning instead of lunch, finish at 3.30 and pick the kids up, log on at 8pm for a couple of hours to pick up things. Lucky as our workplace actively encourage you to take team calls on walks for the hour your on the phone. So I may take the dog with me. It’s acceptable for my current employer.

As I make a brew I empty the dishwasher / load the washer that’s about it for housework.

I do more work than colleagues in the office, who stop and chat to colleagues for hours and discuss bloody love island.

I will agree with PPs that I think it's totally fine to do things like chuck the washing in, load the dishwasher, whatever, during mandatory screen breaks. But if you swan off for hours to do housework and don't do your full days work then it's not fair.

My friend knows somebody that used to cram loads of work in to the morning and then in the afternoon, she would make chocolate which she sold as part of her business. But she claimed she worked the full day. That's abuse of the system and unfair.

AIBU to think it's people who treat WFH like it's a day to get caught up with chores or look after kids on an inset day

Of course you are being unreasonable surely the point of WFH is the flexibility. In an office chance are you spend time talking to colleagues and you have to commute. By working from home you can get most of your work done in a much shorter period of time thus leaving you time to whizz the hoover round or peg an extra load of washing out or god forbid nip the cat to the vets.

As for the inset day comment I don't know any work place that allows you to work from home with young children. Many will allow working from home with children who are older and able to look after/entertain themselves so I don't see how that's relevant?

I wfh two days a week. I am so much more productive in those days. I feel like I need to prove I have the right to wfh if that makes sense. Yes I put the washing on it receive he online shopping, that takes 5 mins, compared to the every hour oh, going to make a tea breaks do.

I didn't really mean taking advantage of having more time in the mornings before starting work to get stuff done - that just seems like common sense - but the posts I saw gave the impression that for some people (notionally FT) it's more like: start work for an hour, put another load of washing in, half hour's work, hang that washing out, little bit more work with some FB-ing, long lunch to go to the hairdresser, couple of hours of work interspersed with doing the hoovering and stacking the dishwasher, pick the kids up, done.

I work more flexibly if I'm at home.

e.g. if I work in the office, I might shower at 7.30, eat breakfast at 8, leave at 8.30 and start work at 9.
If I'm working at home I might get up at 8 and eat breakfast at 8 whilst reading emails and then crack on with work, and have a break to shower mid morning.

In the office I go to make a cup of tea and stand there for 2 mins while the kettle boils and I chat to a colleague.
At home I might put the kettle on and stick some washing in the machine, or wash up the plates left from breakfast, or wipe down the kitchen surfaces and table while I wait.

Going to a dr appointment from home is a perk for my boss, not for me! Means it takes half an hour (5 mins there, 10 mins waiting, 10 mins appt, 5 mins back) instead of the best part of an hour and a half (30 min train, 10 mins waiting, 10 mins appt, 30 mins back to work)

Or I might take a longer lunch break and then work later into the evening in the knowledge I don't have a commute at the end of the day. (To be fair, I sometimes do this in the office even when I do have a commute!)

I WFH 100% of the time but need to be visible online during my working hours.
This doesn't stop me doing the washing up, sticking a load of washing on, that kind of thing. I'd be unable to do anything like vacuuming dusting etc though, which takes up 'real' time and I bloody hate it and have a cleaner

I don't know any work place that allows you to work from home with young children

The point here being, the people on the thread I saw aren't telling their employer that they're using some of their WFH time to look after their small children, but they were sharing it on an anonymous forum and a few others agreed they did similar.

Never saw the inset day comment, no way. You can not be efficient at work with kids in the house.
It’s difficult in the holidays when DH is off with them as they know I’m in the office.

When i used to work from home i would actually do more hours as i didnt have to travel the 2 hours there and 2 hours back so logged in early and got stuck in

Lucky as our workplace actively encourage you to take team calls on walks for the hour your on the phone

What a great initiative! I have a lot of calls so I might suggest this to my employers. Far too many of them seem to be tied to an on screen presentation too, so this would be a chance to free ourselves from the tyranny of webex!

depends on your work, if i dont do my work no one else picks up the slack. As long as it all gets done, does it matter if I start work at 7 and do something at 10.

I’m a full time homeworker, and the lack of ‘presenteeism’ is definitely a benefit. I get my work done and am available by phone, but there’s no obligation to be glued to my desk 9-5.

I’m still more productive than I used to be, because there are no distracting colleagues and I don’t have to factor a commute into the day.

I hate this way of thinking : it's so Lord and serf

Buzz it’s twice weekly, plus any town hall types. Makes a difference to us all. The virgin global challenge was the instigator for it a couple of years ago

OP your post is annoying me. You assume that people who WFH are skivers not trustworthy.

Because I WFH on certain days i consistently exceed my “contractee hours”

I work with colleagues in a different time zone so i start at an ungodly hour and i still do my UK hours on top. I dont shout this from the rooftops.

Why are you so concerned with other peoples work patterns? Do you fully understand the ins and outs of their jobs? Is performance being affected? If not, dont be so invested in other peoples business.

Never saw the inset day comment, no way. You can not be efficient at work with kids in the house.

I don't appreciate being called a liar, and that's my exact point - you can't be efficient looking after young kids, so the people doing it are taking advantage of their employer by getting an agreement to WFH for Reason A and are spending at least some of their WFH time on childcare, without their manager being aware.

You really find it so hard to believe that in a world where some people steal from their employer, some tell all sorts of lies to their employer for their own ends, pull sickies etc that there aren't some people who will use WFH for childcare without telling their employer that's what they're doing if it saves them having to take some of their holiday entitlement?

It's hard to say - you're talking about anonymous posts on another forum, so who's to say what those people you're telling us about are getting up to.

However, I have worked with some of the biggest in-office shirkers going - constantly shopping online, messing about on their phones and hanging around chatting for 30 minutes every time they made a cup of tea. I have no doubt that they would do the same if they worked from home, so I'm sure there are those out there who take the piss wherever they are.

But for most people, emptying the dishwasher while they make a cup of tea, hanging out washing on their lunch breaks or staggering their day's work to fit in school runs and other appointments are just working flexibly and building in chores to their down-time in a perfectly reasonable way.

I know some people that decide to go and shower at 11am if they are WFH. You wouldn't do that in the middle of the day if you were in the office, so you shouldn't do it if you're WFH

What absolute nonsense. It surely depends what sort of role you are in. Sure, if you are expected to respond quickly and "on call" then you need to be available between certain times. For a lot of jobs it doesn't matter what time you do the work, as long as you get the work done.

I think this is why a lot of employers don't accept wfh.

I wfh for myself, no employer. I fit work into spare time, quite often during the night.

If they are managing to get their work done though, I can see why they'd manage to do other things too. I'm sure the employers can guage who is and who isn't working.