Outdoor time

[Maryam13]

New to mumsnet, long time reader, first time poster.

This is a two part question.

Back story: Moved to a new area in December, have two DDs, 5 & 3. I worked full time and was around 30 weeks pregnant. It was extremely difficult to find a nursery for DD2 and DD1 breakfast/ASC only available on some days of the week. Just before Christmas holidays started I managed to find a child minder who would have DD2 all day and do school pick up/drop off for DD1, hoorah!

I was ecstatic about finding her, she was very busy when I went to visit, I did ask about outdoor time/park visits, she said she didn't do them ATM, but come summer she would put sort out the back garden and the children would be allowed out.

Well we're in July and DD2 still says they're not allowed out. I asked CM about it yesterday and she says because she has a pool out it's not safe for the little ones, but next week they were going to have a bouncy castle put up for them/ pool away.
I am indebted to her, because she has been super helpful and since June has been picking up DD1 from school for free, because she knows DD1 likes going to her and because I'm on mat leave managing a 3 month old.

However I feel awful that DD2 doesn't get any outdoor time. Is this reasonable for CMs? She has 2 other helpers and about 10-14 other children there all day, so it's not just her by herself.

Sorry this is long! Second part, DD2 will start school nursery in September, she has a place in two schools, about 15 min walk away from eachother. school A is where DD1 goes, but they charge £6/day for the extra hour, school b doesn't charge anything but I don't think I could manage both school pick-ups and drop offs on time. CM has said DD2 can go to school nursery in the morning and she will pick up and give her lunch and keep her until 4pm with no extra charge (see super helpful!).

I feel bad that DD has no outdoor time, and according to her has no snacks at CM after lunch. Just to put it in to context, the nursery she was in before, did breakfast, lunch and dinner plus morning and afternoon snack.

WWYD, would you suck it up for another year (I'm assuming she will have outdoor time while at school nursery). It wasn't a huge issue in the middle of winter, but now it almost seems cruel with the weather being so nice not to let them play out.

I do take them to the park occasionally after I pick them up and always encourage them to play in our garden at home..

Sorry for this huge essay, this has been playing on my mind a lot!

I'm a bit confused. What's the other option - taking her out and keeping her home with you? Finding a new CM?

I could keep her at home with me while on mat leave, but will need full time childcare when I return to work in March, DD2 will start full time school in September 2020.. never considered another CM... It was so difficult to find any childcare when I moved here, it hadn't crossed my mind!

It sounds crap...are you sure about the no snacks? Have you asked for info on what she eats? You're confusing the fact that she's done you a favour (free pick ups) with her being allowed to not feed or exercise your child properly.

Saying she'll "sort out" the garden is crap! Isn't she OFSTED checked? Have they seen the pool out there??

I do think it's bad...a small child not being taken for a walk or anything!

Have you namechanged OP? I"m confused by Tulip's response...

I'm confused. Isn't access to an outdoor area a requirement (or at least good practice) in early years? To be honest, it was something that was very higher up on my list when we looked for nurseries.
DS's first one had a little garden just for the baby room and they took them out every day. He's currently in a workplace nursery and they try to take them out to their big playground daily. If the weather is too poor, they have an indoor playroom where they can run and climb and stuff like that.
I don't think I'd be happy with a childcare situation where my DS never got to go outside. How odd. Don't they have a park or beach or woodland or something else available?

The childminder would be taking them outside every day, it is a requirement of the eyfs.

I am very confused about her going you free childcare. Why is she doing that? I've never heard of a childminder doing this.

Is she registered with Ofsted?

Also 12-14 children a day?!? How large is her house as she'd need a lot of floor space to be approved for those sorts of numbers.

Fitz I also wondered about that volume of kids! It's loads even with 2 helpers. AND if there are helpers, why aren't they at least having a walk?

HPH, have name changed, sorry for the confusion!

Also the fact that she has helped me out so much has probably clouded my judgement- I have no one else I know nearby so she really has been a huge help for me.

She is Ofsted registered good, when I asked her about snacks, she said that DD1 needs to be told to eat lunch- this is true, DD1 is a very slow eater and I always have to get her to sit at the table, she'd be wondering off at any time if I let her. She did provide after school snacks when the school children came home when I was working, so I think it's because I pick them up at 4pm DD2 misses pm snack perhaps.

I think I'm just going to try to find the £6 extra/day plus lunch money for DD2 come September and go with my gut feeling. It's just going to be hard while I'm on mat leave.

Thanks for your input everyone, good to know I wasn't worrying over nothing. Previous nursery was awesome, outdoor time or outings to the library/shops/park every day. There is also a park about 5 min walk away from CM, wish they were able to go to it!.

None of this makes much sense

The number of children seems unusually high, what ages are they?

The lack of outside time is a huge concern, do they ever go out, for example do they go on school runs. I would also worry about what they are doing instead of being outside, does she use screens a lot?

Finally she's a childminder, that's her income so why is she offering you (and possibly others) places for free?

What @IceRebel said.

According to her Ofsted report in 2017, it states the children have access to the garden with balancing equipment and they go on trips to the park and school, however my DD has never been on these trips :(

The older children are allowed in the garden after school.

I do get the impression screens are used quite frequently too.

Thanks for helping me put things in perspective everyone.

Doesn't sound great but if not alternative after may leave I would keep child with me 2 weekdays and go out. Then it will be winter then they will be at school nursery.

I provide food for my son at child minder, maybe you should provide snack?

Argh I get you feel awkward and grateful and indebted and conflicted.. otoh that’s not enough reason to keep your child there IMO. 😬

I would look for another cm in the first instance, although unless you’re having specific challenges with DC3 I’d probably just take her out and look for childcare for when you go back to work in March.

I had a similar-ish situation but less complicated. The (lovely, warm, nurturing) Childminder my DC1 went to after school spent limited time outdoors IMO - good enough for Ofsted and good enough for after school/holiday care (she lived in a flat with no garden, but they’d spend a good chunk every day in the estate playground and often wander up to various shopping areas and occasionally the library during the day), but when I had DC2 I was 100% clear I didn’t want her to spend full days like that.
DC2 goes to a different Childminder and spends a bit of time in her garden and hours of the day in local parks. New cm also does wraparound care for DC1.

I would honestly keep looking for a different childcare provider as for me it’s not good enough to spend most of the day inside, any time of year. If you prefer to do that non-confrontationally you have a great opportunity to do so by just taking DC out of childcare altogether for a bit while you’re not working. You could offer the cm it as honest feedback (structured as ‘she’s had a lovely time with you blah blah blah, but for me it’s important they spend a great deal of time outside, and it feels like maybe that’s not a main part of how you like to work’), but I don’t think she’s going to change for you - you’ve tried enough times already.

Sorry just reread your post. Yes find the £6 a day. Long term you want both/all children in one school right? Much easiest they start there in the first instance.

If she has a pool which isn’t covered she cannot be registered. My friend is a registered CM and the list of things she has to prove shes doing is long. Inclused visits to parks/soft play/library etc. She does this to showcase her business. How on earth is she so busy if she doesn’t showcase her visits? I certainly wouldn’t be happy having my child there with no outdoor time.

Plus no snacks? They should be included alongside meals.

Very odd

Does she have any balancing equipment in the garden, which would tally with what the Ofsted report said? How old are the children who are allowed in the garden, and have you asked why some are allowed out but others aren't? Surely the pool excuse doesn't make sense if other children are allowed out to play.

Also i'm still confused about why the childminder is being so accommodating to you regarding free childcare. If she's as popular as you say why isn't she charging you?

Report her. She sounds negligent.

IceRebel, I've never seen the garden! - when I visited in December it was 5.30pm, too dark to see and because she said they weren't allowed to use it yet it wasn't a priority, also the fact that I didn't have any other options at that time! My older DD says only the school children are allowed out. I imagine it to be one of those pop up pools for summer because when I asked CM she said it needed 'putting away' and she'd be making space for end of term bouncy castle next week.

I have been providing CM with a few home cooked meals since she's been picking up DD1 free since June. DD2 is qualifies for 30hour gvt funding, so she is getting some money, not directly from me.

I really hope I manage to find a good nursery for DD3- she is on the waiting list for 2 and has been since I was pregnant, given the fact that it was near impossible to find a nursery for DD2 when we moved here.

Simply, no. I wouldn't have my little boy somewhere everyday where he didn't have access to fresh air and outdoor play. She looks after your child because it is her business, and she's offering a service that you're not happy with. Is have him there for as long as it took to find a more suitable placement. She hasn't done you a favour, you're paying for her services, and they're not up to scratch

Ignoring the whole lack of time spent outside which is quite honestly a seriously shit environment for any child to be in, isn't the childminder over ratio? Even with 2 assistants I don't see how she can have 10-14 children all day who are presumably all below school age and then extra children on top of that such as your daughter once schools finish?

I would reconsider having her look after either of your children. It doesn't sound like she is following even the basics of looking after children and the whole thing sounds like some dodgy underground operation.