To ask... why do men and women wear different clothes?

[BogstandardBelle]

I was shopping in town today and since the summer holidays have started where I am, it’s mobbed ! I wasn’t in a rush. So I was people watching as I mooched around. And it struck me just how differently men and women dress. Why is this? Why do women and girls wear strappy sandals and high heels? While men wear trainers? Why do men wear T-shirts and women wear tight or crop tops? Why are women’s T-shirt’s tighter than men’s? Why do women wear make up - and men generally don’t?

I think this is on my mind atm as I have two sons and my best friend has a daughter. My son has never asked to wear a crop top - yet her daughter has: why?

I never wear heels or sandals. I d rather be comfortable in my converse. As for tight tops no way I need practical clothes in my job and none of my jeans are stupidly skinny leg crushing ones.
I do wear make up when i want to and i would never cut my long hair but I wont be uncomfortable just because I m a woman.

When I was shopping for summer clothes for the DDs it was difficult to find decent shorts, all the girls ones were very short and cut up to their bum whilst boys are all knee length. My DD2 would be classed as a tomboy as she hates showing off her body in tight fitting clothes. I finally got her some knee length shorts from the women’s section for women of a certain age that don’t want shorts up their bum! She hates “girly colours” so prefers unisex sports T-shirts in blues, greys and blacks. DD3 has also said she hates tight clothes and crop tops. DD1 is the opposite wanting push-up bras so she can have boobs and short shorts and crop tops.

I can’t recall the last time I wore a dress, OP. I think it must have been the DDs’ graduations, nearly ten years ago. I live in jeans, t shirts, and flat shoes or trainers. I’ve always preferred comfort to fashion. It helped that I had to wear surgical scrubs all day when I worked, so I could turn up in jeans and change on arrival - there’s no “dress code” in an operating theatre!
Surely everyone should just wear what they like? If some women go for crippling high heeled shoes etc , that’s fine - they’re only damaging their own feet, not hurting other people.

don't make me post all those renaissance paintings of men in velvet bloomers and cravats!

Ostentatious and frilly clothing for men is typically associated with those periods in history when such clothing was used by the wearers purely to display their position in the status hierarchy. The clothes might not have been "butch and manly" (by today's standards) but they were designed to say Look at me ladies. I have so much wealth and status that I can wear these ridiculous over the top garments which would be completely useless to plough a field in or hunt a deer. I have other people to do that for me

And little baby boys in beautiful frilly little gowns
For most of history, children before puberty typically wore almost unisex clothes.

It's the patriarchy, stupid.

(Sorry the stupid not really aimed at you!)
It's because historically women have had to rely on men for economic survival, so women need to wear whatever men find attractive. That's still the case because, even though they work etc, there are still huge structural inequalities and women (as a class - obvs there are individual exceptions) still need male economic power and protection. Also they'e internalised their own objectification - they experience themselves as objects of the male gaze and are rarely unconscious of themselves/their appearance.

Actually men are really conformist when it comes to clothes - much less variety when you look at a typical street. It's a bit of a shame they are so scared to show their individuality

Does this surprise you? In Male dominance hierarchies it's all about belonging to the same tribe. It is a short hand message to other men to say "I'm not a threat to you. You can trust me" even if this isn't true.

Just look at the presidents and prime ministers in the group pics at G20 summits. Why is it that men from all over Asia and Africa nearly all wear a dark coloured two piece suit, with a lighter coloured collared shirt and a contrasting tie?

This uniform was invented in England (by Beau Brummel) and was quickly adopted the world over (by business men and politicians from Russia to Japan) who purposely rejected their national dress in favour of the standard English attire for men in power and authority.

more men should wear dresses or skirts if that's what they want to do

This prompts the question - ^Why would a man want to start wearing dresses or skirts?"

If a man chose to wear overtly (stereotypically feminised) "women's" clothing - which remember is all designed to accentuate sexual attraction to other men - he would have to be taking himself off the conformist male dominance hierarchy upon which the patriarchy depends. The only people I have ever seen do this are gay men, attention seekers (show bizz types) / cross-dressers / drag queens etc who the conformist Male can then disregard as not being any kind of threat / competition to them anyway. If women suddenly started to swoon at the feet of men in dresses this might change.

Many reasons, some obvious, some bot. Practicality, enhancement of features deemed attractive to the opposite sex, fashion, but most of all tradition and availability... which in turn lead to familiarity.

Don’t forget it will depend on the individual and social group and profession just as much as gender.

Professional men may spend MORE on tailored suits and grooming than women if they have narrow shoulders or are short - it isn’t just a case of “off the peg fitted black dress from Karen Millen” as a badly fitted cheaper suit does stand out.

Ditto things like facially shaving every day (men with dry skin and/or eczema have to make sure they aren’t flaking as well). Haircuts have to be very standard for conservative male dominated jobs like the military (never mind having to put on heels and make up - the guys there are on disciplinary action if a single thing is out of place or if the shoes aren’t shined right).

The City is easing up tbh - standard wear for trainee lawyers is “smart business but no ties unless you’re meeting a client”.

Flats and a trouser suit and no make up for women is certainly acceptable in the new graduate employees I know.

I think overall in professions where it’s all about “brain and technical specialist knowledge” rather than “impressing clients” more comfortable clothing is the norm. Think scrubs and crocs.

Badly paid transient jobs like retail and waiting tables often unfortunately draw the short straw in terms of uniform codes for men and women.

I also find there’s a London/non London difference (Londoners go out in black casual wear or workwear that looks good rather than “glamming up” for nights out).

Also a fair amount of class projection /date availability stuff going on - sometimes people want to project they’re on the market for a date (don’t many people meet their partners at work?) . In certain class groups looking “overdone” is looked down on a bit.

Or women will sometimes be a bit snide if they think another woman isn’t dressing similarly “to the group”.

It’s all very multi factoral and gender is just one factor there.

OP, you'd love some of my male friends. One in particular wears a lot of very feminine, tight, short and revealing clothes (and not just to Torture Garden).

But it's a very good question and is the sort of thing I like to discuss. So well posted!

I always wanted masculine clothing. I'd still prefer it now, but I'm not built to look flattering in mannish clothing. Does stop me wearing it, but my body shape means I look twice the size I am if I don't wear tight clothing.

I didn't know men once wore heels; that's something for me to go look up.

I didn't know men once wore heels; that's something for me to go look up

High (block) heels were worn by men first - to give cavalry the ability to grip on to stirrups while shooting arrows from horseback.

They were later adopted at various points in history as a symbol of status... I am literally above you / the mud in the street

If you google “shoes for short men” you have elevator inserts/all sorts of “tricks” that may or may not be comfortable to elongate their height....I’ve seen most celebrities and the two royal duchesses in flats but I think it would be great if it was more often for women?

There’s actually quite an interesting episode of First Dates with a date between two guys and one guy is a “heel wearer” and his date is a flamboyant dresser but just considers the heels to be TOO out there.

I suppose whether we’re male or female we all have our “comfort zones” for attention and standing out in a crowd (both for us and our partners)!

Do you think one day clothing will become more unisex

I don't think so. I'm 60 and I recall as a child I was told that by the time the Millenium came we'd all be wearing unisex boiler suit type clothes, and it never happened. You only have to look at cultures like China where during the Cultural Revolution of the 60's they all had to wear the same clothes ....now the girls totter around in stilletos just like girls everywhere and the boys wear jeans and trainers.

It seems to be hard wired into people - like "Men are from Mars and Women from Venus" where they guys are always ready to fight or climb a mountain , while the girls stay home and do their hair.

DH would love this thread, he moans about summer weddings, poor guys has to wear socks, shoes, trousers, shirt, tie, jacket and boil in the heat whereas I slap on a summer dress and wear sandals and feel lovely and cool.

Do I feel sorry for him?? Not a chance - poor lamb.

I don't wear heels, crop tops or tight t-shirts ... however, women appear to be channelled more into decorative clothes that show off their body and try to look attractive or attract attention through colour, pattern, shape etc. Men's clothes- this is all broadly speaking- are more practical and comfortable than decorative.

Haven’t RTFT so this may have been mentioned already. I wear a uniform at work. My employer supplies a choice of men’s and ladies trousers and shorts. I (female) discovered that the only way to get unhemmed trousers was to order men’s. This then resulted in me discovering that men’s trees have massive and very useful pockets. Why are women’s trousers not made with equally useful pockets? Because they think I’ll have my handbag with me? FFS!

I'd like to know why women's trousers/jeans are less practical & lack useful pockets, is it because they're expected to carry handbags & men don't?
Most of my jeans can't even fit my keys in front pockets, it didn't used to be this way.

If women want to wear men's clothes there is nothing stopping them. If you "feel" unfeminine in them then perhaps you need to work on yourself and build up your self esteem. Or maybe that just means that you don't like those clothes?

I know that women get the short shrift in some situations but if we blame society for absolutely everything then we lose our own voices and independence. We become frozen in the headlights.

I urge anyone who wants to dress outside of the norm to do so loudly and proudly. Life is short. Go for it.

I want more men's style clothes, but that will fit me as a 5ft 5 8st woman, many don't. A boy's 14 in trousers is the closest fit, but my waist to hip ratio is not the same as a boys'.

Yes, sex and the patriarchy, as many people say.

In the end the clothing aimed specifically at women is highly sexualised, intended to highlight sexual characteristics and body parts which have become sexualised, because at base level the patriarchy conditions everyone to believe women are sex objects and the make gaze is key to our success or failure.

Children learn by emulating role models who they believe themselves to have something in common with, without understanding, which is why some small girls ask to wear clothes essentially designed to present them as sex objects.

Women feel good in clothing which emphasizes their sexual characteristics and makeup which mimics sexual arousal because they've been conditioned to do so lifelong by receiving approval from not only men but the women who've bought into the concept with or without (usually without) thinking about why red lips, high heels and tight skirt are considered attractive - at root its purely and simply about sex.

Obviously lots of women reject stereotypes or pick and choose when to conform and when not to, but it is fairly disgusting that in some contexts work dress codes are essentially about making women look sexually attractive and that some people genuinely mix that up with looking professional even when it means makeup, a tight skirt and heels for women but loose trousers, flat shoes and no make up for men.

I haven't rtft yet but it has made me want to mention how much womens pyjama shorts annoy me. Why have we got to walk around with our arses hanging out? I've not seen any of a decent length ever.

Dresses are very practical in the summer though...air can circulate.
Personally i think it is a great joy to experiment with clorhes and women have a lot more freedom in that respect: we can go down the jeans and t shirt route or the high octane glamour of sequins and feathered dresses.
We dont HAVE to show our legs or cleavage....but we have the option to in this country if we want to flirt with men.

I am more annoyed on behalf of men who dont have the same scope for dressing up without ridicule.
Heels can fuck off though.

I'm sure this isn't a popular opinion but man and women are different to each other. Even tribes in the forest who don't have social media and magazines choose to present themselves differently.
Saying that, i love lots of men's tees as they often have rad designs so I buy them and wear them but would pair with leggings or shorts and still look sort of feminine.

I was thinking about dresses v trousers.
Thinking of Ross Poldark hmmmm..... or at least clothing in the 18thC, don't his trousers have a buttoned flap so he can whip it out for a pee. Demelza on the other hand wouldn't benefit from that, and also has periods to deal with, so perhaps a dress was more suitable in her case. So we started down that route.

I think historicaly very small children had none sexed clothing. We seem to be getting more obsessed with sex signalling.

Certainly at school in days gone by you separated girls from boys to teach them differently , and since primary school children are difficult to sex , different dress codes probably helped that training.