to refuse to allow school to take DSs fingerprints for new fingerprint technology?

[ChaoticEvil]

DS1 & DS2 attend the same secondary school. Currently the school has a system of using key cards in order to get into the buildings and to buy lunch. They (I) pay an exorbitant fee when they lose the card, but they are easily replaced by filling in a form and the old cards blocked from being used. All fine.

The school wants to move to a fingerprint recognition system from September and plan to start taking all fingerprints over the last few weeks of this term. Apparently the actual fingerprint image won't be stored, but instead an algorithm based on unique points which have been taken from the image of the fingerprint.

I can't quite say why I am uncomfortable with this but I am.

AIBU to refuse to allow it? What would happen then?

Or assuming IABU can somehow help me allay my weird feeling about it!

All my DC have been using this technology for most of their school career - the eldest is 23 now. No actual fingerprint stored, just key "points" - and no one loses their fingerprints (usually).

Of course they will be storing and keeping the fingerprint information, probably sell it to a third party who will then sell it to the police to be part of the national database
Ditto any other data that can be monetized

I don't think you're being unreasonable OP, and I would expect the school to have alternative measures in place for children whose parents refuse consent.

Presumably if enough parents share their concerns the school may reconsider the plans.

They may only be using points from the fingerprint but they will have captured the whole fingerprint

I think yabu - this picture might help to explain why. It's not the fingerprint that's stored, like with the police, it's a data stream. It's such a great system in schools where kids are forever losing library cards or dinner money etc.

They may only be using points from the fingerprint but they will have captured the whole fingerprint

Yes, but the entire fingerprint isn't being stored. What's being stored on the system is points from said fingerprint and a whole stream of random digits.

They're not the same thing.

It's a brilliant system, my autistic son loses everything. With the biometric system I never need to worry he's hungry at school because he can't lose anything.

Nothing new... our school library introduced finger print recognition whilst I was still at school - some time pre-2005. As others have said, finger prints are not recorded.

This might help? DD2 has this technology at her school and it's great.

Fingerprints are absolutely biometric data: "Biometric data means personal information about an individual’s physical or behavioural characteristics that can be used to identify that person; this can include their fingerprints, facial shape, retina and iris patterns, and hand measurements."

And the school are legally obliged to offer reasonable alternative arrangements if you or your child refuses consent: "Reasonable alternative arrangements must be provided for pupils who do not use automated biometric recognition systems either because their parents have refused consent (or a parent has objected in writing) or due to the pupil’s own refusal to participate in the collection of their biometric data. The alternative arrangements should ensure that pupils do not suffer any disadvantage or difficulty in accessing services/premises etc. as a result of their not participating in an automated biometric recognition system. Likewise, such arrangements should not place any additional burden on parents whose children are not participating in such a system."

This is all set out in the relevant Department for Education guidance. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/692116/ProtectionnofBiometriccInformation.pdf

I suppose its just his fingerprint will be with them forever, its not like a password or PIN which you can change, and once that information is stored somewhere its there.

There are government guidelines for retention and destruction

I think this will become more common as the university I work in is aiming to become cashless soon and move to this system. I would approach the school and ask if there will be an alternative option and how data will be stored

YANBU

I refused as well . Son still got his lunch but in a different way.

Oh and this . Totally agree

YANBU but majority opinion on MN is that you should hand over anything anyone in authority asks for at all times.

oh come on now we all know that people in authority are nice kind and always trustworthy, they always put the interests of the powerless far ahead of the interests of the powerful, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear🙂

People are paranoid. I scan my hand to clock in at work. This technology is way better

It's absolutely fine - my son's school has had it in place for years. I guess if you refuse, your children won't be able to purchase anything anymore, so you'll have to supply them with food/drink every day & they'll have to lug it around.

I think it’s a good idea, but not always foolproof.

Might as well get used to it because biometrics will be used for pretty much everything in the next few years.

You can’t DO anything with the information, it’s just a load of numbers. So the pp who says the school will sell the information?? A) batshit and b) it’s not worth anything to anyone.

I am not paranoid BullBullBull

Just do not see why schools should bring in technoloy like fingerprints . Same with oh they must wear correct uniform at all times .. Why ? Does it make their brain work less ? All this gearing kids to a working life. let them be KIDS

I'm fine with the use of biometrics but ewww to them all touching that scanner pad.

If the school are lax about keeping personal data safe, I think I'd be more worried about my DC's address, date of birth, medical conditions, behaviour record etc etc .... being distributed irresponsibly ... than a few points of a fingerprint. So I'd say, on top of the data that the school already hold about your DC, it seems odd to get bothered about this.

Data can never be deleted.

I'll bet a shiny tenner that 90% of the folk who are questioning this either use their fingerprint or retina or facial scan to unlock their latest iPhone without any worries despite the fact that is a mobile item whose specific existence is designed to transmit information via third parties.

My mum told me not to allow my Childrens finger prints to be taken incase the school plant them at the scene of a crime. THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN?!

I dont understand why the national database having fingerprints even matters??

I also don't believe the school would sell it anyway but just interested in case I've missed something!!