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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Not allowing dad to collect DS from nursery

52 replies

loie · 07/07/2019 12:17

I'm not sure if this is possible to word this -

I tried to explain to nursery that I need a system in place where - unless I specifically say that DS is to be collected by his dad that day, that he isn't to be released to him, due to police involvement etc and we're in the process of going through lawyers.

They told me I need something in writing to take him off the contact list but obviously if I take him off the contact list then he can't collect him even on the days that I may say that actually he is coming to get him today and I authorise it, but I don't trust leaving him on the contact list as then he's able to come and collect him whenever he wants (which he would).

How do I put this in writing?

OP posts:
WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:33

loie
Should've clarified, he has no parental responsibility
That's different. That's unusual as if he's on birth certificate usually he'll have PR even if unmarried.
So it's ok for you to say he has no PR and can only collect X days with my agreement as only I have PR. Maybe you need a solicitor to write that out for nursery's sake as it's unusual for father's not to have PR too these days.

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:35

But I think, you are better off, if he has no PR and you have concerns about his behaviour that involves DS, such that police/CSD are investigating, to withdraw any permission to collect and state to nursery only you have PR. .
He can collect from you.
Obvs I don't know issues but if it's not ok for him to collect some days then it's not ok for him to collect any day.

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:37

If you have concerns about his safety.
It's difficult for courts to understand why for eg Tuesdays are safe but not weds and Thursdays....

If he isn't unsafe with his child and it's a power play, about he can do what he wants when he wants with his son, then get solicitor advice and go for urgent interim child contact order. It's worth the money.

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:39

Courts don't understand nor tolerate arguing between parents . A dad is a dad, a mum is a mum. Both in law usually have equal rights unless a court says otherwise due to serious concerns.
There's a c100 form you can complete and if DV you can ask for legal aid. Get solicitor to help you complete it but you'll have to represent yourself or pay a barrister in court

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:42

So, if he doesn't have birth certificate, copy it and get a solicitor letter that says he doesn't have PR . ( I think you create wobbly ground saying he can collect some days from nursery and not others)

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:43

Sorry, I meant so if he ISNT in birth certificate ...

WorraLiberty · 07/07/2019 15:44

Errm yes you should've mentioned he doesn't have PR.

and given the fact that I stated that there's actually been police involvement with him and his behaviour, I don't think there's any need for the comments about 'why my wishes out-rank his fathers' when I'm keeping my child safe.

But unless I've read it wrong, you're happy for him to pick him up some of the time, just not other times Confused

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:56

Sorry OP but WorraLiberty has a point. Not to get at you but to let you know that's how a judge will look at it.
I have a DV exH, who was arrested plenty of times and only a court interim order could dictate when he was allowed to pick up (but school rang me if he turned up unexpectedly, he tried it twice) it's difficult for the school/nursery /childcare provider. Mine had PR though, but I don't think you can say he's unsafe sometimes and then not on other days. I get you might have reasons to think so he (sometimes he might be drunk or under influence or might be more angry and belligerent that day). But you can't argue both ways as court won't get the difference and police will say it's a civil matter if he's allowed to pick up some days and not others and is the father, until there are bail conditions preventing access to child or a court order in place saying same or limiting it. And the latter, even then, remains a civil matter unless children services dept state he isn't to have unsupervised contact. (That won't last long even if they do as court takes over).

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 15:59

People are just trying to give you clear advice about not muddying the water, given their experience and knowledge of C&F courts.

Original poster
loie · 07/07/2019 16:03

@WillLokireturn completely understand. My point is that I'd just like to know where my DS is. If he is to be with his dad, I'd like to know he is and know when he's getting dropped back (which is standard even without all the police involvement at the minute!). I certainly don't put it past him to exert his control being able to pick DS up by picking him up and taking him back to his (an hour out of town) or disappearing with him to make things difficult for me.

OP posts:
HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 07/07/2019 16:04

Yabu, you can’t have it both ways.

WorraLiberty · 07/07/2019 16:06

Then ban him completely from picking his DS up.

I don't understand how you trust him some days but not others.

How is that keeping your child safe?

Bookworm4 · 07/07/2019 16:08

Do not allow him to collect DS at all and arrange other methods of contact; by the sounds of it none or very limited.

Original poster
loie · 07/07/2019 16:13

@WorraLiberty well, it'd be the same as a contact arrangement, it wouldn't be okay for him to just collect him whenever he wanted and take him out of town apart from when it was arranged to be?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 07/07/2019 16:18

It wouldn't be the same as a contact arrangement.

If you think you need to keep your child safe from him, you need to stop him picking your child up from nursery full stop.

Sort it out with the courts and keep the nursery out of it until then. It's not fair on the staff there to have to deal with this on some days but not others.

Yesisaidthat · 07/07/2019 16:20

Since he is on the contact list you will need to provide the nursery with a copy of the birth certificate where it shows he isn’t on there and then set up a password system to allow him to collect when needed.

However if he is on the birth certificate you are going to need a court order that specifies contact otherwise no matter how often the police are involved the dad can still collect

ColaFreezePop · 07/07/2019 16:24

OP what other posters are pointing out is you are being illogical.

We are all outsiders to your situation so the only clear way to make us and the nursery understand is by you saying your son's father doesn't have parental responsibility so they are not to under any circumstances hand the boy over to him.

If he is to have the boy up on some days then either yourself or another approved adult can pick your son up from nursery, then hand him over to his father off the nursery grounds.

A nursery, school or any other place cannot police your interaction with your son's father.

LadyRannaldini · 07/07/2019 16:32

As a gp I am on 'the list' and I'm recognised by the nursery staff but if my daughter needs me to collect them she rings the nursery to tell them on the day, can't you do this?

stucknoue · 07/07/2019 16:33

We are just advising you that nurseries and schools need a list of people who can collect your child, they cannot be policing contact agreements. If he doesn't have parental responsibility then it's your choice if he's on the list

insancerre · 07/07/2019 16:41

As a nursery manager I think it’s unfair you are expecting the nursery staff to police your arrangements
Either he is allowed to collect whenever he wants or
He isn’t allowed to collect

It’s just too complicated to say he can do it one day but not the next

WillLokireturn · 07/07/2019 16:45

@loie. I understand exactly what you are worried about and why. Some controlling nrp like to hold that over you that they can take DC anytime and disappear off to make you worry (won't play out well in court if they do) But... Don't muddy the waters with nursery.

I think several posters including @ColaFreezePop
Have explained it well.

AbbyHammond · 07/07/2019 16:54

Not fair to expect the nursery to get in the middle of this.

If he doesn't have PR, give nursery a copy of the birth certificate showing only you, take him off the contact list, and tell them he can't collect.

It's unreasonable to expect them to let him take your DS some days and turn him away other days.

WorraLiberty · 07/07/2019 16:58

Is this a childcare issue OP?

I can't think of any other reason why you'd allow anyone you don't trust, to pick your child up from nursery on any day.

Let alone when the police have been involved over their behaviour.

Parent or not, it doesn't make sense that you'd allow this at all.

FamilyOfAliens · 07/07/2019 17:05

Agree with Worra.

He’s either safe around your DC or he isn’t.

And if he wasn’t safe around your DC, any contact would be supervised, so it’s not the same.

RebootYourEngine · 07/07/2019 17:21

How far into the process at family court are you for sorting out set contact?

Also who collects him the other days his father doesn't?

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