To think that more people know about Undetectable equals Untransmittable? (attempt 2)

[HIVpos]

So, I cocked up my first effort at this – made a coffee and trying again. Many apologies to those who posted in my first attempt. Please, please vote/post again

Last week the results of a YouGov survey commissioned by THT were announced which I found made for quite depressing reading.

Apart from the fact that according to this only about 25% of guys in my age range would feel comfortable kissing me (HIV is not infectious in saliva, even in someone not on medication with a sky high viral load), I thought that more than 19% of people in the U.K. would know about U equals U.

I’ll put a link to the article in the next post. I’m more than happy for MNetters to post constructive comments/ask questions on the other aspects of the survey in an effort to try to work out how to reduce stigma (would have to say that before my diagnosis I’d have had to learn a heck of a lot about HIV before dating someone living with it), but my question for the poll is:

Before you read this, AIBU in thinking that more of you knew that people living with HIV who are on effective treatment cannot pass the virus on to their sexual partners, even without using condoms? If you did not know this, please tick YABU

Thank you

I did know this but I would use a condom when having sex with someone new. I would need to be in a committed relationship and have a discussion first before doing away with condoms anyway.

I think one of the reasons why it’s not widely publicised is that the government don’t want large swathes of people to start having unprotected sex thinking the risk has gone. Yes it may be significantly reduced for HIV but that’s only one of many serious infections you can catch. Previously almost eradicated diseases such as syphillis(sp?) are on the up.

@HIVpos HIV is mentioned fairly regularly on TV - in the news, on TV programmes etc, but mostly people don't notice - if it doesn't affect them, no reason why they should really.

I know HIV of course, I was referring specifically to the Undetectable/Untransmittable terms in your OP. Had I not see DS I would have had a rough stab at what they meant in context, but wouldn't actually know for sure and I would definitely look them up if it became a factor in my life.

And

@RainbowRun
I think regarding kissing that people might not be worried about saliva, but in case of a cut in the mouth.

Fair enough to wonder this and I'll try to explain... HIV needs various things to transmit successfully including quality, quantity and route. Firstly, if the person who has HIV is on meds and is UD, there's no way this could happen anyway - can't pass it on!

Saliva also has enzymes in it that render any virus unable to infect or be infected. Any cut would have to be extensively bleeding in enough quantity to transmit. An example is meth mouth - google it (warning it's not pleasant). I don't think anyone would want to kiss anyone else with open, actively bleeding cuts, would they? Also, it then has to somehow get into the blood stream of the other person.

So, looking at it logically, the person with HIV would not be on meds for whatever reason, would have a lot of active virus in their bloodstream and would have extensive, freely bleeding cuts sores in their mouth, and would then kiss someone else who also has open wounds in their mouth.

Sorry, a bit graphic .

@Unfinishedkitchen it is being publicised, just not enough or so that everyone gets to hear about it (one reason why I'm posting here!)

You are right that there are other STIs on the increase unfortunately (I think I read about emerging strain resistant gonorrhoea too) and every attempt is made, when touting the advances in HIV, to try to raise awareness of this. Safe sex should always be practised when not in a monogamous relationship in my book!

I don't know for example that any potential date is not a rapist or serial killer

True, but they are never likely to reveal that information, so you're not likely to ever have to decide whether to date them on the basis of it. Whereas when a new/potential partner reveals a certain risk factor about themselves (deliberately or otherwise), the temptation must often be to avoid the relationship in order to avoid that risk (however small), on the grounds that there are plenty of potential partners out there without that risk.

The first time I came across this was a couple of weeks ago on Designated Survivor. I will admit i didn't actually understand what the character was talking about and had to Google it to find out.
I was amazed, as I didn't realise that advances in treatment had made this possible.
I've certainly been educated and learnt something new, which can't be a bad thing!

I did not know any of this, though I suspect that's mostly because it has no relevance to my own personal life.

@lazylinguist ok, I get what you are saying. The point that I am trying to make is that, for those on meds and UD, there is no risk. The fear of the past has a lot to answer for along with the stigma. This is why a lot of people living with HIV don't actually disclose this fact to their partners - at least to casual ones. It is all to do with the stigma and nothing to do with risk. Legally, (in England anyway though it does differ depending on where you live), there is no requirement to do so because it is recognised that we can't pass it on. I think people just don't trust it yet.

I get the posters who say it has no relevance in their life - fair enough. But is is great that you are at least reading this as you never know when a friend or family member might be in need of support. It's one of those very weird thing that we think will never ever figure on our radar!

I knew this through my previous employment.

@Shufflebumnessie that is great you noticed and googled it - absolutely no bad thing! However, as you are not the first to mention Designated Survivor on here I feel that I might be missing out on a new series - need to check it out

Sadly there is so much stigma about lots of things. It’s just ignorance.
Someone started a thread about dumping their boyfriend because he has herpes. I mean most of the world has herpes!

But that says more about people than anything else. Most people are lazy.

Graphic is fine. I certainly had no idea.

One of my best friends brothers died from AIDS in the early 90's and she also didn't know. Things have changed so much from when her brother was sick.

This thread is really good, people will be gaining a great deal of information from it.

@RainbowRun This thread is really good, people will be gaining a great deal of information from it.

Thank you - I do hope so 👍🏻. With resources reducing as they are, it’s up to us to try to do our bit where we can - and hopefully try to correct myths and misconceptions. Unfortunately the article was also posted in a certain “newspaper” and it was gutting to read the comments made - not wanting to breathe the same air etc

I did not know this. Thank you.

I wonder if the perception is similar to that of the contraceptive pill, and how many people know of someone falling pregnant while using it. There’s always the human element for error.

I’m sure I read of the 7th diagnosis of HIV of a gay man using prep earlier this year, although I'm not sure if that was attributed to a user error or that the medication failed.

If anything I think we need a new campaign of fear, for the younger generation and as you said, the middle aged (45/65) fresh to market from divorce range about unprotected sex.

I didn't know this but will have a read up on it.
How did you get it op? How did you find out? Sorry if you've already said/ don't wish to share.

HIVpos Thank you for your thread, it's been useful. I knew a good amount of this, but not all, and as I'm now 50 and looking at possibly dating again, a timely reminder to keep myself safe, for all sorts of STIs.

Because of this thread I've been on the Terrence Higgins Trust and watched the channel 4 doc they linked to.
www.facebook.com/TerrenceHigginsTrust/posts/this-is-terry-higgins-complete-with-1980s-moustache-his-life-was-cut-much-too-sh/10155367827902332/

Thank you @HIVpos

Thank you HIVpos. I think lots of people - including me - need to revisit our thinking about HIV and the new prognosis after diagnosis.

@CalmFizz
If anything I think we need a new campaign of fear, for the younger generation and as you said, the middle aged (45/65) fresh to market from divorce range about unprotected sex.

Wow- why fear, considering that nowadays it is not the death sentence it was in the past, and is now regarded as a chronic, manageable condition - and one that can’t be transmitted? HIV anxiety can still be a very real, often needless worry for a lot of people due to the tombstone ads. We really don’t want, or need, to go back to that time.

I do agree though that a new campaign is certainly needed - both in recognition of the fantastic advances made (which I am very grateful for) and also to raise awareness that HIV contraction can happen to anyone, along with all STIS, some of which are indeed on the increase. Testing needs to continue to be encouraged - there are approximately 7,800 people in the U.K. who are living unknowingly with HIV.

As for the perception being similar to the contraceptive pill - well, slightly, but while the contraceptive pill has not been proven or acknowledged to work with 100% effectiveness, with HIV there have been several studies done on serodiscordant couples (1 pos, 1 neg, with the poz one UD and on meds, over a period of time, having condomless sex etc) with zero infections (google partner study 1 which includes for heteros and partner 2 which continued on for gays who are potentially more at risk). This zero risk has been endorsed by all major world health organisations - WHO, PHE etc.

Re PrEP, yes, I believe there have been 7 reported failures so far - this is worldwide btw so a tiny fraction of all those taking it. For anyone wondering why - some people have been found to be resistant to one of the drugs used in PrEP, which is why it might not have worked. Those who have been diagnosed with HIV are actually tested for resistance to any of the drugs so that they only take the ones best suited to them.

I actually only learnt this yesterday from my own researching/internet mooching, it isn't something taught in schools or anything at all (though I think it really should be)

@Gojojogogogo (wow, that’s a name ) bottom line was I got it through sex without a condom and found out by getting tested. This was about 2 years ago and I posted about it then to try to raise awareness - also to try to understand and come to terms with it...anyway, it’s here if you want to read it:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2942589-Getting-back-in-the-saddle-and-HIV

YABU. I did not know this. I suppose I had presumed that the medication worked simply to prevent the condition progressing but did not know it impacted on likelihood of transmission. (Having said that, my reply may be irrelevant because I haven't lived in the UK for 20 years so am still only really familiar with awareness campaigns of the 80s and 90s. I'm 50 BTW.)

Sorry op, I wasn’t talking about a fear campaign specifically for hiv but the whole range of sti’s. There’s a general laissez faire approach to sexual health across generations, maybe because everything is considered curable now that it’s like catching a common cold.

(I’m not sure if I’m expressing my point well, of course I think it’s excellent the advancements within treatment are happening, it’s the balancing act between prevention/treatment. I’d argue the same point with diabetes/obesity stats etc. Safe sex should always be promoted.)

When I mentioned the pill I meant more the general populous perception, with the upbringing of the 80s aids campaigns and just the basic human error element.

I think a big issue is the stigma surrounding taking charge of our sexual health. So many heterosexual women particularly who never really consider that they should get tested. I’d love to live in a society that viewed it much as going to the dentist for a check up, not with opt outs for being in a ‘long term monogamous relationship’ (who really knows?!)

@puppy23 it is I believe mentioned in schools but not in much detail. Sex and health education in England is currently getting an overhaul so hopefully they will come up with something a bit better, especially considering the government is supposed to be supporting us to get to zero new transmissions by 2030. All info on STIs taught in schools really should be kept current.

There are people like Lizzie Jordan who go round schools etc to try to educate on HIV. Here’s a link - looks a lot more interesting than what my DC told me about their Sex Ed class where I’m not sure how much they actually took in
www.think2speak.com/lizzie-jordan-hiv-training